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TOPIC: Five Personalities

Five Personalities 5 years 7 months ago #1163

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wow, thst's a nice way to put the five aspects of Seva or Duty. Here is another five varieties of Seva.
Body Seva
Emotional Seva
intellectual Seva

and so on.....
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Five Personalities 5 years 7 months ago #1162

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The sequel I mentioned is when Energy again in another time forms the Universe and creates everything. This is never ending and gives me goose bumps when I experience this eve ending sequels. Every sequel is complete in itself. But it is a new beginning of the Energy Sequel.
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Five Personalities 5 years 7 months ago #1161

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This is the end title showing clarification for the first part of the discussion :-)

A perception on DUTY.

JOB and DUTY are two different things.

JOB is the activity described in the job description given by any external source. This is performed only when there is a NEED.

DUTY is exhibiting true nature. DUTY is not performed, it HAPPENS without any NEED. This DUTY is also mentioned as SEVA.

Below are the five levels of DUTY (SEVA)

BODY - Exhibit the true nature of the EARTH (Like the acvities of Normal cell in a body, Patience, give the resource for all the living beings)
MIND - Exhibit the ture nature WATER (By being flexible to any kind of container it is accomodated in)
INTELLIGENCE - Exhibit the true nature of FIRE (Transform which ever comes in contact with and emit light)
AWARENESS - Exhibit the true nature of AIR (When trapped inside a container, the air's character remains the same as outside)
CONCIOUS - Exhibit the true nature of SPACE (Has no boundaries and acccomodate everything)
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Five Personalities 5 years 7 months ago #1159

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When an END comes, then there should be no more Sequel.... ha ha ha :-) unless the NEED of the director is still not satisfied.
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Five Personalities 5 years 7 months ago #1158

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sevas are performed without any intention of accumulating the SAL Energy


Thats it. Mangalam. Subham The End.

That doing Karma without intention is what we call as Duty. It starts as duty, then it ripens as nish-kaama karma spreading the fragrance of Ananya Bhakthi and the sweetness of Bless of being the Self, eternally.

But I am back with the sequel............
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Five Personalities 5 years 7 months ago #1157

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@Sakthi

I'm assuming you are mentioning the instructor can be in physical form or instructions form.

I understand about your point about the alcoholic analogy. But everyone misses out the point "WHY SHOULD ONE JUSTIFY OTHERS WHEN THE OTHERS DOESN'T EVEN MATTER FOR THE OBSERVER", this is like the RED LADY in the training program in the movie Matrix. Red lady character is not needed in the training program at all, but introduced deliberately to practice ignoring those kind of aspects in life. If importance is given to those characters, then those characters turns out to be "Mr.SMITH" ha ha ha :-). So in intellectual stage the biggest practice is to try to avoid the characters which is not required during a task, this will lead to the awareness level. Like in your example when someone goes to the bar instead of observing what other's are doing, do what to be done there and get out, else the person drinking black tea ruins your whole purpose of going to a bar.

So you mean neither ACHARYA or EVERYBODY are existing now.

Absolutely you are correct, let the kids learn learn in a hard way. That is the limit for an intelligent person. An awareful person sees these kids as reflection of ones own self and learn from them instead of trying to change / convert these kids.

You are absolutely correct, TAKEING OFF the I and WANT are the only action an individual has to perform. And as you mentioned unconditional seva is a practical way to experience it.

Seva can be categorized in 4 levels

Body level Seva - Give back wealth (not just money, it might be physical works) to the society
Mind level Seva - Give emotional support back to the society.
Intelligence Seva - Give Intelligence back to the society to discriminate good and bad (To avoid RED LADY)
Awareness Seva - Give awareness to the society

When all the above are done to accumulate SAL energy, then how many times this seva is done the individual will not be out of the cycle.

But if this seva becomes a conscious act, meaning these sevas are performed without any intention of accumulating the SAL Energy, then what ever giving back becomes the SAL Energy going back to the Society (Consciousness)
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Five Personalities 5 years 7 months ago #1156

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if the student is going to put their hand anyways in the fire?
It is like a child getting burned alone and cries in pain vs, to be with the parent. An Acharya will teach both about the experience and also pacify the emotional pain. So it an oppurtnity. In other words, self learning to swim vs guidance with an instructor.

Why should one even get a curiosity about whether the person is an alcoholic or not?

Please dont take the example literally, but understand about wholistic view vs fragmented view.

Who is existing now? The whole exist now.


Below is my perception of all our great Acharyas Very correct.

what to be done to help these kids? There are many kids like this, then allow them to suffer and learn in a hard way.

But if an external source judges walking as Rajasic and sitting as Tamasic action, whom to blame?

There is no body to blame. All this was to explain one thing, from your wonderful example.

A disciple goes to Lord Buddha and says "I WANT HAPPINESS"
Buddha replied take the "I" and "WANT" and see what is left.


That "take off" is not an intellectual imagination, but that take off requires an action (karma) to be done and experienced. This is where I said, Seva is that action.

Ramanana Maharishi said "All karma actions bind us more to the phala and put in viscious cycle. But seva alone with the thought that it is only Bhagavan's act (no individual feeling) frees from Karma.

It is like again it childhood we do a play , where we want to pick the odd guy out of game, a person will be in the game, but he is not involved, but without him it wont be solved.

That is how the karma of Seva does. It is the final action one can do to liberate oneself.
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Five Personalities 5 years 7 months ago #1155

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Yes the only way to experience is to be consciousness. But what is the use of Acharya's teaching, that putting your hand in fire is going to burn you, if the student is going to put their hand anyways in the fire?

Yes you are absolutely right, if totality can be seen in external actions, or emotions or intellect, then there will be no justification.

Why should one even get a curiosity about whether the person is an alcoholic or not? If the person whomever is drinking whatever in the bar, why does it make another individual curious about the action?

If Acharya's actions are for everybody's needs why didn't the Acharyas do sacrifice and wait till everyone come out of the cycle and get out of the cycle as the last individual? or as per your explanation if from Acharya's perception everybody are themselves and if Acharyas are out of the cycle, Who is exisiting now?

Exactly from Peace Pilgrim point of view walking is the only action she performed (physically), so is it ignorant or intellectual to see Peace Pilgrim didn't do anything else except walking? She was able to connect to conscious just by walking without any other actions. This is what exactly which I mentioned, here Peace Pilgrim doesn't NEED any, even though as per law she is eligible for government support. In case if Peace Pilgrim didn't had physical legs and has the same connection to conscious, she might have sat on one place for peace. Both the actions (Walking and sitting) are the same to this personality. But if an external source judges walking as Rajasic and sitting as Tamasic action, whom to blame?

Ramana Maharishi and Peace Pilgrim are the same from my perception. They have two different physical action, but the purpose is the same, so just by their physical actions a person in intellect level can only justify then Rajasic, Tamasic, but a person in awareness level will see their action as Saatvic.

Below is my perception of all our great Acharyas

They are like parents who save wealth for their kids, so that the kids basic needs are taken care, so that kids can focus on the other things. Acharyas saved these wealth because realizing that they couldn't achive what they wanted, so they wanted their kids to achieve. Here Acharyas are transformed to the message which we have now. So Acharyas has become AWARENESS, not merged with CONSCIOUSNESS, Acharyas are taking birth continously, they are still in this vicious cycle . So we their kids if we want to fulfill the purpose of those Acharyas and give Moksha to Acharyas, then we need to take off the Acharaya's character from within us and take only the message and live, instead of imitaing the Acharyas life style and trying to become them (This is the actual Bhuta Yagna/Pitru Bali if we consider our Acharyas as Pitru). All the message which Acharya's has left is to make our life simple. But if kids doesn't want to accept these messages (Wealth) and wanted to try out putting this hand in fire to realize (which was already done by Acharyas), what to be done to help these kids?
Last Edit: 5 years 7 months ago by muthuksundaram.
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Five Personalities 5 years 7 months ago #1151

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Experiencing can be done in different ways for different individuals. No different ways, only one way....to experience consciousness, one has to be consciousness and not at Energy level. A child who never put his hand in life cannot know. But once put then it may not want to do it again. But atleast it has to put once and feel it, otherwise it is only an intellectual understanding.

justification stops and the individual sees everything is complete at their own stage. I would put in other words, looking at other external actions in totality is the best way to understand, otherwise it is justification. Lawyers "justify" actions and the Judge, judges the Truth, because he is un-condtional or unbiased.

Example, a person drinks black tea in a bar...just that alone you cannot use to say he is an alcoholic. A whole investigation gives the right judgement.

But does still those EVERYBODY exists or those ACHARYAS exist?
If the acharya's actions are for his needs , then "Acharya exists. If the Acharya's actions are for everybody's needs, nothing for him or her, then the Acharya does not exists. This is why actions have so much importance.

You are absolute correct to justify that the perception of internal actions is an excuse to be lazy.

Your analogy is kind of confusing. Why does the bank need to force the personality to take loan?. Sorry if I did not communicate in simple words. If the individuality exists, then the Consciousness is no more that, but "Energy. when there is Energy, there is personality...needs...loss...gain etc.

Consciousness does not force the Energy in any means. It is the Energy that does all the forcing. It is like a student from India (Consciousness) who by his own wish came to USA (Energy) to study (enjoy individuality). It was his wish, India or USA did not force.

In USA, then he has to work to keep his wishes of USA to go forward. He keeps transforming his time and body energy into dollar energy. Now if he is tired of this life, he can very well go to India. But he needs money to go back and also pay back the loan he took. The USA Government will not allow that. Sitting in USA he can intellectualize that has he has no desires (needs and wants) and now he is in India :lol: .

In reality, he has to pay back all debts before the govt officials allow to be back to India. He has only one choice, he has to work more and at the same time stop spending his earned money. He has to really really lead a miser's life. Then he can pay and get out of USA.

Most of us coming to USA are in this reality. We had a goal of a certain amount and go back to India. But then we post pone going to India, because we keep getting loans of a house, a car and children education. Then we are struck here. The same is for life also.

Here no body forced any one, it is all an individual's desire.

Peace Pilgrim lived in USA but the tax officers were not after her, because she was not earning a single penny. She was as free like being in India (being in Energy level but actually in Consciousness state). But every single step she took, she did was for world peace. That is duty , that is being unconditional and the Consciousness state. She was totally exempted from tax.

But earning and spending, we cannot be tax exempted. Hope Ramana Maharishi and Peace pilgrim actions are justified.

This is why we are asked to do five loans to be paid back.

Pancha mahã yagnas:

(1) Manushya Yagna - self desires (needs) to be fulfilled. -Body
(2) Pitru Yagna - Ancestors - Mind
(3) Deva Yagna - Cosmic officers (Intelligence)
(4) Bhuta Yagna - Cosmic Energies, Guru (Awareness)
(5) Brãhma Yagna (Consciousness)
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Five Personalities 5 years 7 months ago #1150

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@Sakthi

Absolutely from those Acharyas point of view they are everybody. But does still those EVERYBODY exists or those ACHARYAS exist?

You are absolute correct to justify that the perception of internal actions is an excuse to be lazy.

This is exactly I'm also telling the SAL energy (Everything in your terms) transformed from the source (Society in your terms) need to be given back by action which will not transform the source any more, which is the conscious action.

Your analogy is kind of confusing. Somebody says I don't want loan because having loan is a painful feeling, I will live with what I have. But you are saying that is intellectual understanding, that somebody need to get the loan and pay back to realize it. Why can't the bank leave them as it is when they say they don't want loan? Why does the bank need to force the personality to take loan? This is similar to when parents force to eat the kids even though the kids say that they are full. But the parents react as if they they know how much the kid's can eat.

I can't agree more than you on the point that experience is the best way to realize than understanding. But when you understand that touching fire is going to burn your skin, do you still want to realize by touching the fire? Experiencing can be done in different ways for different individuals.

Absolutely Uni5 method is one of an effective way to learn.

Once again, the only point which I would like to stress is "Justifying others actions externally is the most ignorant act", this will lead one from intellectual to mind level. But when one jump from intellectual to awareness level, the justification stops and the individual sees everything is complete at their own stage.
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Five Personalities 5 years 7 months ago #1149

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they were trying to get everybody out of this Virtuous cycle, but the first to get out of this cycle was themselves.
For them "they are everybody", by getting everybody , they were getting themselves out of the cycle. If they were working for themselves then it is need. If they were working for everybody, it is duty.

With these personalities the actions are happening internal more than external.
Again a misunderstanding here.... I have seen this attitude from any spiritual sadhakas....an excuse to to remain in their mind level to avoid work....A teacher once said.... these is Pseudo-Advaitism.

A person like Ramanana Maharishi has left at the age of 10 taking "externally" from the society.....so he need not work externally. whereas people like us still are taking every thing from society and so we have to give it back to society.

Still he is a Mahatma contributing to society through Internally. As you know without doing Karma of paying back....Consciousness is only a intellectual understanding, like a student learns computer theory. Unless he does the practical work, the theory he learnt is only an intellectual understanding.

The very purpose of having a body is for this understanding in action. That is why still we are all holding to this body. A common person is keeping the body for himself and a Jnani is keeping the body to serve others.

Now please read the first sentence of this reply. By working for others, only we will experience, there there is one person and not many. All the "others" are only cells in one Cosmic body. So by working and saving others, we are only working for ourselves to save ourself. without working and intellectually, we save ourself intellectually.

This is why in Un5 we are dividing the One Consciousness into five for crystal-clear clarity (no transparancy for Ego to escape.
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Five Personalities 5 years 7 months ago #1146

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@Sakthi

Still Sakthi has WANTS :cheer:

An instance comes to thought from Lord Buddha's life

A disciple goes to Lord Buddha and says "I WANT HAPPINESS"
Buddha replied take the "I" and "WANT" and see what is left.

Like this with Sakthi's statement "Sakthi wants everyone to be Out of this virtuous cycle"


If "SAKTHI" AND "WANTS" gets removed then "EVERYONE TO BE OUT OF THIS VIRTUOUS CYCLE" can be got :woohoo:

This is what has happened in all the acharya's life like Vyas, Suka, Sankara, Manika vasagar, Tukaram etc they were trying to get everybody out of this Virtuous cycle, but the first to get out of this cycle was themselves. :silly:

Yes you are absolutely right, intellectual thinking will keep coming on and lead to justifying others as Thamasic, satvic or rajasic, but when jumped into awareness, these justifications vanishes. For example an intellectual person will justify Lord Vishnu, Lord Brahma, Lord Shiva, Ramana Maharishi, and various other maharishi's are thamsic persolanity because they look like they don't do any physical/external activities. With these personalities the actions are happening internal more than external.

These tamasic, saatvic and rajasic are more of an inward action in awareness state. But they are external actions in intellectual state.

Exactly the actor performing without audience is the state of moksha.

If an individual is trying to loose the individuality for the sake of coming back and enjoy the SAL energy accumulated shows that he/she is still at intellectual level, it is not good or bad, they do it because their NEED is still not fulfilled. The action performed to enjoy the SAL energy deposit is a result (desire) oriented action.

And your last point is right on target, the action which doesn't transform the energy is conscious action.

When conscious action happens it is wonderful to see all the SAL energy accumulated in intellect level starts going back to where it got transformed from. This appears like all the SAL energy is reducing (at intellect state), but what happening is the SAL energy starts merging with the source. This is like Nuclear Fission process. This keeps happening until the periodic table is blank (Not even a single element including the quarks or recently found god particle).

This can be witnessed in a laboratory examination when water in the state of liquid is kept in a space and start creating vacuum in that space, the water starts boiling and starts going back to gaseous state without increasing the temperature, when the ideal vacuum is achieved then the water (gaseous state) and the container will also not exist. But at intellect state, we think the water cannot become gas until the temperature is increased. But the simple process of start creating vacuum (removing of matter).

Container which hold the water can be compared to BODY
Water can be compared to Mind
The temperature of the water can be compared to INTELLIGENCE
Creating vacuum can be compared to AWARENESS
The space where the experiment is conducted can be compared to CONSCIOUSNESS.
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Five Personalities 5 years 7 months ago #1145

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Are you saying that Vidur was favoring intelligence (Dharma)????

Vidhura was holding on to Dharma, and in that moments he slips without anyy effort to Consciousness mahatma state. When one holds on to Dharma, all individuality vanishes. A terrorist soldier and a dharmic soldier both will both lose individuality while dying in the war....but only one who does the war Dharmically free's himself.

The other one comes back with SAL Energy to enjoy the fruits of sacrifice. This is the what is called as walking on a Rzaor's edge.

Through our actions, we can sacrifice and generate more SAL Energy and spend it or without the "Doer-ship" attitude free ourself without generating SAL Energy. If attitude does not generate (transform) SAL energy, then it is Consciousness (unconditional).
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Five Personalities 5 years 7 months ago #1144

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Sakthi wants everyone to be Out of this virtuous cycle. For that several ways to do karma with correct attitude to give up identifications.

In our cell analogy what kind of duty is cell trying to perform to body (Consciousness). Is it not obvious the cell is ignorant about the body that it is already complete and it doesn't need any.

That is an intellectual understanding that it is already complete. Only when the cell has no desires of being just a cell (in your dictionary "needs") , then it is complete like a body. But it has to be in action not an intellectual understanding. Through action it has to do actions without any individualistic thoughts. This krishna says as "Nish-kaama karma".

It is easy to visualize that Nish-kaama intellectually...but the reality is understood only when a person puts into practice. This is the Tamas to be be overcome at the Awareness level. Like the multiple fingers in every finger, there is Tamas even in awareness levels also.

Maya levels are at various levels, like a game, every time we finish a level, there comes another trick.

To get out of all this is to do all actions without likes and dislikes and feel no individuality (cell-fishness) but only whole (body)ness.

You are very correct, Acharyas says that Advaitins easily get caught in intellectual understanding and debates and feels that they have got "it". One has to
get out of the intellectual thinking attitude and put in action level. "Inaction" in action.

You have beautifully made it clear in the Maya thread that the "Actor and audience" non-duality is final, but should not be an intellectual thought, but should be in that state. For that, the actor should perform in the stage to be in that state. There are Moksha.....
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Five Personalities 5 years 7 months ago #1143

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It seems Sakthi wants to be in this virtuous cycle ha ha ha :lol:

Are you saying that Vidur was favoring intelligence (Dharma)????

Yes you are correct

1. Consciousness is
2. Consciousness is complete

So if the above case is true. In our cell analogy what kind of duty is cell trying to perform to body (Consciousness). Is it not obvious the cell is ignorant about the body that it is already complete and it doesn't need any.

I'm not taking Krishna and Balaram into picture as it is clear the discussion is intelligence level, so it can be justified. Even in math with logic it can be proved 1=2or3or...
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Five Personalities 5 years 7 months ago #1142

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Dharma and Adharma both are expansion of Awareness, it is a scale of levels. Adhamra is at the level of body, mind and Dharma at intelligence and awareness. Sticking on to Dharma, we get closer to Awareness, which automatically leads to the original state - Consciousness.

Krishna cunningly avoided Balaram! what to do when we have people who stick on to rules without looking at the wholistic picture. This weakness people like Duryodhan will use to bend rules to their favor. krishna wanted then to bend rules to move to the other side, for which Balarama would be a hindrance.

Like keep discussing
Discussions are to uplift from the body mind level to the Awareness levels. All our Acharyas did debates to clarify the doubts and mirror out all the hiding blind spots of the Ego.

Truth (Reality)
Consciousness is not Energy
Consciousness is complete .
Energy changes because it feels in-complete.

Consciousness is......
when "I"ness comes, Consciousness becomes Energy. Energy undergoes evolution till the "I"ness dissolves to original Consciousness.
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Five Personalities 5 years 7 months ago #1139

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@Sakthi

You mention Consciousness is Energy
You mention Consciousness is complete and doesn't need any.
You mentioned Energy feels in-complete and needs something.

Your last statement contradicts the first 2 statements.

Could you clarify what consciousness is? Is Consciousness and Energy are the same or not?

For Vidhur what is Adharma? Is my understanding right that Dharma and Adharma both are expansion of Consciousness? So siding with Dharma alone is not awareness state, it will be intellect state.

Krishna cunningly avoided Balaram!!!!???? Talking laws of warefare is wrong or right? This is definitely intellectual talk because this is biased.

This is the virtuos cycle with which the universe is running. Like keep discussing so that atleast something keeps happening, like hydrogen gets created constantly for no reason. If everybody stops visting and discussing in this forum imagine what happens to this uni5 forum (Like production of new hydrogen stops). The discussion and forum disappears and only the webmaster will exisit (creator of the forum). So it is webmaster's (creator) decision to keep discussion on or to stop. We members are mere refelction (non real). :whistle:
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Five Personalities 5 years 7 months ago #1137

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Does Consciousness (ENERGY) is lacking any or it is complete always?

Consciousness is always complete (Poornam). Only Energy feels in-complete and so expands, condenses , interacts, transforms and finally stabilizes to a stable form. Then it finds, that the stabilized form can undergoes decay and death. Therefore it takes the opposite journey. This means to prevent destabilization (immortality) it tries to repair (opposite to transform), dissociate (opposite to interact), expand (opposite to condense) and becomes infinite (opposite to finite in space and time). This is the journey backwards.

Only when the needs are understood as duties, the Energy perception changes to Consciousness. This is not an easy task, it is similar to formation of human being from the big bang. It involves all the processes.

Krishna called Vidhur a mahatma because he was un-conditional, meaning every time he rescued both Pandavas (security) and Kuravas (good advise). This quality Krishna called him as a Mahatma. A Mahatma treats everyone alike as his or her own Self, both to a person who does good and bad to oneself or others. A Mahatma tries to help oneself and others to reach "Home". For Vidhur Dharma was Consciousness (unconditional). This un-conditionality he reflected through regination because then he needs to take one-side. But being in job, he was unconditional, helped both the parties with same love and affection.

This was why Krishna did not criticize Vidur for not taking part in war, but did seriously blame Balarama. he cunningly avoided Balarama who would "Justify" being Truthful and finally help Kauravas win the war (even in the end he was talking all the laws of warfare).

The Energy has to have the "Need" of duty to finally become Consciousness. That one "need" is needed. If that need is intellectually felt as an act of doing "nothing" is a hided laziness. That is why Krishna said do action in inaction and inaction in action.

That last need of Energy to become Consciousness (state without needs) is needed like saying a fire wood is needed to lit a pyre of fire woods, finally this one also extinguishes. Same way, this one need will burn by burning all other needs.

Hope we all clearly understand needs from duty, if not we can still continue the discussion (till no need to need to do needs but duty alone :woohoo: )
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Five Personalities 5 years 7 months ago #1132

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@Sakthi

"Vidhur wanted Dharma to win" - If vidhur WANT something then there is still NEED, so he is not Mahathma. If Vidur is mentioned as Mahathma then there should be a very valid reason. My perception on Vidur his, he was doing the job to save Hastinapur till he understood and realized all are act of Krishna (Consciousness) and Vidur is mere shadow and he doesn't have anything to do, so just went with the flow of the Krishna. Vidur didn't resign the job, Krishna resigned and it reflected as if Vidur is resigning. Here he didn't favor Dharma or Adharma, because both are from the consciousness.

I was having a discussion with one of my friend recently about the death of Dhronacharya. He asked me who killed Dhorona. There were 4 options.

1. Bhima
2. Dhristyaduman
3. Yudistrar
4. Krishna

On the above everything are correst.

1. Bhima killed Dhrona's mind (Mentioning that he killed Aswathaman)
2. Dhristyaduman killed Dhrona's body using the sword
3. Yudistrar killed Dhrona's intelligence because Dhrona trusted Yudistrar's words
4. Krishna was the one who was behind this act, so the Dhrona (Character which was in the awareness) was killed by Krishna the Consciousness.

With the above fact we can see the act of Vidur resigning the job does not belong to the character Vidur's. It was the act of Krishna (Consciousness)


Sankara's Perception - Still confusion
How can a shadow can have need and the duty is done by the body?

Change of needs
Exactly, the need shouldn't change at different levels when one is clear in the needs. If the need changes it means the clarity is still not achieved. Yes by fulfilling one's need completely will get the contentment. To fullfill this need the duty need to be performed. The change in need is the starting point of Maya. Please check the link www.uni5.co/index.php/en/forum/12-source...iness/1056-maya.html

You are clearly mentioning that WE ARE DOING ACTION ACCORDING TO THE SEASON. But just step back and see does the body need's different during Summer, fall, winter, spring? or WE need something different?

As mentioned before Conciousness is not a seperate state by itself. It has the remaining 4 states in them. If you see as consequence, being Consciousness also has a consequence, YOU will loose YOU.

Please explain the below question

Does Consciouness (ENERGY) is lacking any or it is complete always?
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Five Personalities 5 years 7 months ago #1128

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Dear Muthu
may be we are telling the same Truth, but using different words.

unless he sits in home and pray for the victory of Pandavas.
Vidhur wanted Dharma to win and not pandavas or kauravas. For that he resgined the job.

The only one character who didn't fight the war was Vidur.
May be if you write your perception of Vidhur resigning the job, might brings consenses with the words we both use.

you are also mentioning he is helping Pandavas silently. How can a non-dual personality favor one side? Apologize for the mistake. Please accept my correction.... he is helping Dharma (Truth) silently

Yes you got it right about the intellectual vs real. Level 3 vs Level 5 as per the pyramid showing uni5 pattern.

Your point about Sankara's perception is kind of confusing. In my perception the real can only have duty Yes I agree... my point was needs are for cell and duty is for body. Does this clears the confusion?


else we will be in this virtuous cycyle forever (rebirth). Very correct...but does the needs change at different levels for different people?. Can anyone fulfill the need and get contentment from it. Or does one contentment in performing duty? Again need is doing actions to cater likes and dislikes and duty is performing actions without likes and dislikes.

How can we justify just because body gets old they become senior citizens and they are ready to go to Sanyasa. From their perception their needs are not taken care yet, so they are still working towards fulfilling their needs.

You are correct , physical bodies do not reflect the Truth. But we should contemplate on the physical forms to reflect what we are supposed to do according to the time. To put it in simple terms, when it is winter, we do activities that are appropriate for winter. Same way seeing the physical (externally) winter, one can take it to reflect the internal winter and the activities to be done for the sesason.


Because everybody are correct from their point of view. This is exactly we are getting through Uni5....but do not forget that Uni5 tells that there is consequence at each perception of view, except at the unconditional state of Consciousness, where it is only duty-Self.
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Five Personalities 5 years 7 months ago #1126

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@Sakthi

If bone marrow cell still keeps working even after anti-biotic is given, then Vidur can't be comapared to a bone marrow cell, unless he sits in home and pray for the victory of Pandavas. If he would have done that kind action then he wouldn't be called Mahathma.

You contradict your own statement about Vidur. You are mentioning Vidur is a Mahathma and does not have duality, but you are also mentioning he is helping Pandavas silently. How can a non-dual personality favor one side?

Yes you got it right about the intellectual vs real. Level 3 vs Level 5 as per the pyramid showing uni5 pattern.

Your point about Sankara's perception is kind of confusing. You got it right that cell(Manifested energy) is illusion and body (Consciousness) is real. So does the cell has a duty or the body has the duty. In my perception the real can only have duty, so in other terms, "BODY HAS THE DUTY, NOT THE CELL". The shadow (illusion) will move when the body (real) moves, the shadow (Illusion) doesn't have any duty by itself. The body decides when the shadow to move. When the body decides it is not going to move, then the shadow also doesn't move.

You got it absolutely right about the responsibility, that when the feeling of seperate exists then the feeling of responsibility comes in. When there is no duality, then responsibility feeling vanishes, because with non-duality everything done is to onself.

I brought Balaram in discussion just to clear a fact that Balaram also was involved in fight. The only one character who didn't fight the war was Vidur.

The gita was also preached to only 2 characters (Arjun and Dhritarashtra). Because these are two characters who was still not clear about their NEED. Gita's objective is to clarify the NEED and then recommends to stick to it, else we will be in this virtuous cycyle forever (rebirth). When the NEED is clearly definied then when after action is performed and verfication is done, the cycle ends (No more birth).

So again coming back to our discussion "The contentment level comes only when there is clarity of the NEED".

Again you are shifting your perception to Level 1 (Body) when coming to Senior citizens. How can we justify just because body gets old they become senior citizens and they are ready to go to Sanyasa. From their perception their needs are not taken care yet, so they are still working towards fulfilling their needs.

Sanyasa can be taken only when one is clear about the needs. This is what happens to Satyavathi when she didn't know what she needs for Hastinapur, if she was clear Hastinapur needs a king, she would have followed Bharat's policy of democracy, then there shouldn't have been any problem. Here is where Vyasar came in clarified her needs after Dhritarashtra, Pandu and Vidur were born, and then she went to vanaprastham.

When we keep shifting our perception then of course these justifications keeps coming. Because everybody are correct from their point of view. So the body level senior citizens are not waste, they serve a wonderful purpose for the observer to grow.
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Five Personalities 5 years 7 months ago #1124

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When anti-biotic is given, the bone marrow cells stop's it's work?? It still continues it work.

Vidur's resigning Job is because of duty. He does so that he is not forced to fight for kauravas. So he infact was silently in war helping pandavas to win.

We are talking about the same, but with only 1 subtle difference.
I think the difference in intellectual non-identity vs "real "non-identity". In real non-identity, one person will not have any identity to a cell or to the body. But I am talking about having identity to a cell, but then intellectually saying non-identity to the whole body.

My perception is contributing to maintain a healthy body is a also a NEED, because when there is no body, the cell can't exist, so the cell contributes to the body because it NEEDS to exist.

This is where I had a discussion with a Vedic scholar, who said everything is Maya. I said this is how Sanakra debated about the Buddhist Maya vadins. This world or universe is not an illusion. It is real as Consciousness. But it is the separate feeling of Consciousness and Energy is an illusion. Same way, whole body is real, the feeling of cells is illusion. The need is an illusion as a cell, but duty as a body still exist.

Could you explain a bit "What is RESPONSIBILITY?" 'What makes one feel RESPONSIBLE?"

When there is a duality, I and others are separate, then it is lack of responsibility. When one considers everyone as "One" or "Self", then that is responsibility. We will not spit in our house (toilet), but we spit in the road and not in the dust bin. Our home we feels as our own (responsibility naturally comes with the self feeling). But outside , we feel it is not ours, so we do things without lack of responsibility. If you treat the public road as our home, there is no duality, there is no identity no duty sense also needed, because it is yours. We have to tell about responsibility, duty , need common sense only when we have a separate feeling.

Balaram was also finally made to involve in the war by judging Duryodhan and Bhima's fight.
There also Balaram exhibited his emotionality and so Krishna brought him only at that spot. Krishna need not have to do that for Vidhur, because he did not have the duality.

"Today all the older people (perusu, Kaarnavar) are waste to the family and the soceeity, because of their stunted growth."

Today's senior citizens most of them do not grow from Grahasthasan to vanaprastham or to Sanyasa and so end up continued fights with family members. They dont have any higher values knowledge to pass on to the grand children. All they continue is still making more money by doing part time job and also getting pension. Because of this lack of growth, they do not give back anything to society.

Vanaprastham is moving towards Awareness using intellectual understanding and Sanyasa is the practical execution of the Awareness into un-conditional love to society.
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Five Personalities 5 years 8 months ago #1122

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@Sakthi

Yes you are absolutely right. This is the same thing which I'm also telling.

When there is a identity as a normal cell in the body, it has duty and a need to keep the body healthy. So it need to do the duty as a cell for the goodness of the body. (Arjun)

When there is a identity as a bone marrow cell there is still a job to produce immune cells to keep the body healthy. I don't see Vidur here. Because Vidur didn't identify himself as any kind of cell when he resigned his job.

DOUBT
When there is a problem in the body does the bone marrow cells stops producing immune cells??. When anti-biotic is given, the bone marrow cells stop's it's work??

When there is a identity then there will be a job description and a need (Might be a wholistic need like to keep the body healthy, but it is still a need).

When the cell works for only it's need but don't use other's resources and doesn't work when there is a need (Maintain good healthy body), then as you said it is because it is lazy and becomes BENIGN CANCER CELL.

When the cell works for only it's own need by using other's resources and doesn't work to maintain good health for the body then it becomes MALIGN CANCER CELL.

We are talking about the same, but with only 1 subtle difference.

My perception is contributing to maintain a healthy body is a also a NEED, because when there is no body, the cell can't exist, so the cell contributes to the body because it NEEDS to exist.

I don't see any difference between a wet grinder and a man. The only difference which I see is physical form, but everything else inside this physical form is a manifestation of men's intelligence. It is like telling there is a difference between parent and a child because they look different. The wet grinder is created by human, so it is his/her's creation/child. Just because it manifested in different form it doesn't become different than human.

Could you explain a bit "What is RESPONSIBILITY?" 'What makes one feel RESPONSIBLE?"

Balaram was also finally made to involve in the war by judging Duryodhan and Bhima's fight.

I see KRISHNA fighting/involved in the war. When a dough is made and if the human claims that he/she made the dough, it is utter ignorance. It is actually the wet grinder made the dough and the human uses the wet grinder. Here KRISHNA is the wet grinder and we are all talking as if only Arjuna fought the war and Krishna didn't fight the war. What was he doing in Kurukshetra? Sitting idle!!!!???


CONFUSION
Could your explain a bit about your below sentence.
"Today all the older people (perusu, Kaarnavar) are waste to the family and the soceeity, because of their stunted growth."
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Five Personalities 5 years 8 months ago #1121

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Could you please explain "What DUTY means?" "Where did DUTY come from?" "Who gave this DUTY?"
Excellent question. There is difference between "needs (selfish-desires-not basic needs )" and duty.

Connect our body which has different cells with different roles to perform to individuals as cells in a society. We have to perform duties like a pancreatic cell producing insulin hormones for the proper balance of Energy (glucose) storage and use similar to our material wealth. A kidney filters and recycle the salts like individuals doing recycling materials. We have to be like blood WBC cells giving immunity from microbial infection.

All the above are duties?. who assigns them?. They are self assigned post and no cells feel inferior or superior and discharge the duties for the body as a whole.

Now one single cell, dislikes duties and says I am content with what i do and does only production of materials for its own cell organelles (internal structures). But says does not harm any one (another expression of laziness). Then we call them as benign cancer.

Another cell has a strong desire to dis-regard the society (body). It is selfish and does not contribute anything to the body , but uses everything for its survival. This is called "Needs (Selfish-desires)".


Who gave the duty?. It is self responsibility. No body needs to dictate. Duty feeling comes only when a cell feels the whole body as itself. When it does feel as separate, then it has desires of wishes.


Every individual has to perform all the duties of not only as a son or daughter, but also as a husband and wife and sister or brother, a teacher or a scavenger, a politician, a security guard. Then from the individual family he or she extends to the whole body Consciousness state. This makes the body (society) healthy. Every individual has to do multi purpose roles and in doing so, lose their identity of being branded as an individual and becomes the Cosmic body.

By catering to needs, individuality is strengthened. By being duty bound, the individuality and identification vanishes.

Need and duty do not go hand in hand, they are extreme ends.

Your wet grinder example is good for non-living things. But for man with highest intelligence and awareness, should be "growing", from being catering to the individual body(brahmacharyam), to a family (Grahasthasanam) to guru (vanaprastham) and finally to society (Sanyasam).

If one does not move or grow, then Energy is wasted. By growing to the next levels Energy is used extremely eficient.

Today all the older people (perusu, Kaarnavar) are waste to the family and the soceeity, because of their stunted growth.

Vidhur is like a bone marrow cell. The BM's job is to produce immune cells and warned the body of an infection. If the body ignored the signals initially and then when anti biotics (war) has to be given, the bone marrrow need not be involved. That was Vidhur's role. So that is why he is called mahatma, who alone did his role. So he was not criticized for not participating.

Balarama was highly emotional person like the parasurama (except the Rama). So Krishna wanted Balarama to stay out of war. So before the war, he made Balram touch a dying cow and said you have to do parihaaram by visitign temples for Brahma Hathya Dosham. If Balaram was there, out of emotions he would have joined Duryodhan's army making it extremely difficult for Krishna.


Krishna particiapted in the war not physically. But without him the war cannot be fought. With BMIAC you could know at what level he was involved in the war.
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Five Personalities 5 years 8 months ago #1118

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@Sakthi

I forgot to add the below point in the previous post.

In the same Mahabaratha where Arjuna and Krishna are there, there is a personality with name "Vidur". Vidur also had a duty to fight in the war, but he destroyed the relationship which he created himself as a Miniser/Citizen of Hastinapur, so he is not bound to fight. If a personality like Vidur is not fighting when he was referring himself as Minister/Citizen of Hastinapur then it is shear laziness. But here Vidur is not a minister/citizen of Hastinapur anymore , so he is not bound to fight, so he was not preached with Gita.
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Five Personalities 5 years 8 months ago #1117

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@Sakthi

Could you please explain "What DUTY means?" "Where did DUTY come from?" "Who gave this DUTY?"

Below is my perception.

Krishna identifies Arjuna as Satrhiya during the war. As a Sathriya he was explained to perform the unbound action. If Arjuna didn't identifies himself as Sathriya then he is free of duties. Krishna also is a Sathriya, but why didn't he fight in the war? Is it just because of his oath of not to fight? Does Krishna was also bound to his own oath like Bishma?

If there is a identification then there will be a duty to perform. Like when an individual identifies himself/herself/itself as wife/husband/emplyoyee/employer/son/daughter/machine etc., then each of these identification has a duties because there is a purpose for each and every identification's creation.

Who creates these identifications? Obviously ourselves.
Who creates the duties? Obviously ourselves

When we can create a identification and duties we can destroy it ourselves also. If we think the identification and duties are given by an external source, then that is the birth of ignorance.

When there is identification with reference, then automatically the need and duty comes in action. When there is no identification the need and duty disappears.

NEED and DUTY goes hand in hand. When NEED disappears then the DUTY disappears also.

For example the duty of a wet grinder is to work when it need to make dough. So it is used when there is a need to make a dough. But when there is no need of a dough, just because the machine is there it shouldn't be keep running, it will be waste of energy. But when there is a need for the dough and the wet grinder says I will not work, then there is some problem with the wet grinder (LAZINESS).
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Five Personalities 5 years 8 months ago #1116

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Very nice explanation Muthu. The contentment level comes only when there is clarity of the NEED.

But we have to differentiate between need and duty. There should be contentment in needs but not in duties. Contentment in duty is a lazy excuse to do a task (there likes and dislikes again pop up).

This is a mis understanding in many spiritual sadhakas, that one can forsake doing duties. Actually as you said we have to foresake needs (wants of the mind and likes and dislikes of the mind), but not the duty. In Gita, krishna tells about this difference between need and duty actions.

For Duryodhan there was a need for war. For Arjun , Krishna said, the war should be a duty action and not an need bound.

Todays likes , most of the people are working for the needs and not as duty bound. This trpas the mind more and more to endless needs of Samsara.

As long as we feel we have a BMIAC, then duties have to be performed. Having contentment or developing that attitude leads to duty bound action, that wanes BMIAC and one establishes oneself only in Consciousness state.
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Five Personalities 5 years 8 months ago #1113

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@Sakthi

I think we might need to clarify the term "CONTENTMENT", because this can be viewed at different levels in different ways.

My understanding / perception

Contentment - I have everything and I don't need anything including the "I" thought.

Below is your point "To have a mind to do any needed task any moment without procrastination without any justification, is a mind at Consciousness.".

Yes you are absolutely right. When the person reaches the content level, then there is no NEED exists for the person (Conscious), but if a need arises (at conscious level) then the mind will be used automatically by the "I" in awareness to perform the needed task. But if the consciousness doesn't need any, what is the point for the consciousness to unnecessarily create the I thought and use the quite mind and create waves.

Your point is based on the assumption that the consciousness is incomplete and there is more action to be performed to fulfill the pending needs. Yes at this stage the mind need to come out of likes and dislikes and perform the actions at the proper time.

For an example take a child/adult. Does playing with a ball is more important OR to study for an entrance exam for MIT or to go for a work or to do social service or to have romance or to perform rituals or blah blah blah....? Here how do we define which action is appropriate at which time? If an external source defines which is appropriate then the external source judges the child/adult. But if the external source and the child/adult combines to one there is no judgement, because whatever happens is decided by the conscious.

Is there a list of tasks defined for every character what it is suppose to do and when it is to be done? If the list exists is it common or different for all the character?

The laziness for the mind occurs when there is no clarity of the need, when there is no clarity the focus goes to 2 different levels partially (for example intellect and mind) , at this stage the intellect might like to perform an action, but mind will dislike.

For example when a husband wants to do something and the wife doesn't like it. During this stage one will loose depending on their strength. This happens because there is no clarity what the family needs. If they both are clear about the family needs, even though one might not like the particular task, husband/wife will sacrifice for the welfare of the family.

The contentment level comes only when there is clarity of the NEED.
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Five Personalities 5 years 8 months ago #1111

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Contentment is a great virtue and accomplishment. Just Content feeling alone is not enough. But spiritual practice does not stop that that level. One has to move from others strings in the other levels. Example, mind likes and dislikes, not doing needed actions at proper time just because the mind is lazy or bored with a repetitive work. The moment we witness this attitudes is a self reflective device to be aware of the attachments at the mind level.

To have a mind to do any needed task any moment without procrastination without any justification, is a mind at Consciousness.
Like this every level has to be at Consciousness level. This answers the question of Muthu, that just being self content attitude, we cannot be at one level. As rightly he pointed, Consciousness is everything as the other four levels. But that is not an intellectual understanding, one has to be "That" (consciousness). That moment there are no levels, only "One", eternally.
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Five Personalities 5 years 8 months ago #1099

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Thanks for bringing your valuable thoughts to the forum.
You are right (as always everyone is :lol:). Since everyone is not aware of Consciousness, we show it is a separate one, though we know it is all. Infact I have not bought the real five aspects, which all people may not immediately comprehend.Yet you can see, in all five, all five also exists at infinite levels.
fivefinger-manyfingers.jpg
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Five Personalities 5 years 8 months ago #1094

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Yes absolutely correct, but a slight correction is, the fifth level is not a separate level. The conscious level (5th level) has all the 4 levels inside them like a seed has stem, leaves, fruit etc inside them.

When we we eat a fruit we can realize the source of this fruit is a seed. (BODY LEVEL)
When we enjoy the beauty of the tree we can realize the source of the beauty is a seed. (MIND LEVEL)
When we use the shade of the tree we can realize the shade's source is the seed (INTELLIGENCE LEVEL)
Whenever we feel the breeze we can realize the breeze's source is the seed. (AWARENESS LEVEL)

All the above is from the same seed, so how can the above levels be classified which is better. AT EVERY LEVEL THE PERSON IS GIVEN A CHANCE TO REALIZE THE CONSCIOUSNESS. but a desire "I WANT TO HAVE A FRUIT, I WANT TO ENJOY THE BEAUTY, I WANT TO FEEL COOL, I WANT TO ENJOY THE BREEZE", makes the perception condense to one of the levels. This "I WANT" feeling is the main reason for condensation.

So person pointing towards the conscious level shouldn't been shown as a separate level (In your image), because every 4 level has the consciousness in them. So when someone is feeling the consciousness by focusing on the body is not the least than someone is feeling the consciousness by focusing on the mind or intelligent or awareness.

I feel the image should be modified as removing the white ares (5th level) and the light blue shade area should be named as the conscious level.

Every time when a person sees the body/mind/intelligence/awareness level the perception goes through the conscious level. WHEN SHIFTING THE FOCUS TO ANY OF THE 4 LEVELS THE PERSON IS GIVEN A CHANCE TO REALIZE THE CONSCIOUSNESS. But for a reason (DESIRE - I WANT) the person forces the perception to a level without realizing the perception is passing through the conscious level (5th level as per your terms)

But when the person stops at the conscious level (Just pointing at the light blue shade area), then the person has all the 4 levels under his/her/it's vision.

Five-identification-modi.jpg
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Five Personalities 5 years 8 months ago #1093

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Very correct, then that person naturally goes to level five, no desires, no expectation of results. This is what Nis-kaama-Bhakthi or no desires-love or unconditional love.
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Five Personalities 5 years 8 months ago #1092

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@Sakthi

Very true, so the inclination towards results makes the person to switch the identification towards personalities. If the person is result oriented means the person is judging from one to another personalities and choose the optimum one which gives the person's desired results.

RESULTS are expected only when there is a NEED/DESIRE. So when a person is result oriented, it means the person is not content, the person is still EXPECTING something to feel he/she/it is complete.

Assuming the person stick to any one level and doesn't have any inclination towards the results / accepts the results as it is coming out of this personality. This can happen when the person is not result oriented (Means NO NEED/DESIRE) and doesn't judge other personalities.
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Five Personalities 5 years 8 months ago #1091

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You are right, we are just missing (messing) with words.

So let me put it graphically.

The person, personality and results are all fixed. what is changing is only the identification. Results are fated, but choosing the personality (action) is destiny. We cannot change the fate (results) but can choose our destiny (Personality).
This understanding is viveka (discrimination).

Why change personality?. Simple based on results, what else. Your thought provoking comments please......

Five-identification.jpg
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Five Personalities 5 years 8 months ago #1087

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@sakthi

We are talking about the same thing in different terms.

Let me use your terms. The question was

Why does a person choose different personality for his/her/it's need, when the person remains the same?

OR

What makes the person to identify to different personalities?
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Five Personalities 5 years 8 months ago #1086

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Muthu very correct, we should be clear about person and personalities.

There are 5 personalities as we discussed. The person is to my understanding, is a fixed. A person will choose the personality -1 for few years and then later choose personality-2 or 3 or 4 to 5.

A delicate issue here, is the person is not changing , but identification to personality ( 1 to 5) changes. Because person and personality are taken as one with the identification. The person I mention is the unconditioned person, with identification, the person is lost and personality is dominated and seems that there is a evolution of personality.

Hope this clears confusion.
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Five Personalities 5 years 8 months ago #1085

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@Sakthi

I think we are mixing up terms here

Below is my understanding

Person - Shiva, Narayana, Brahma, Christ etc (REFERENCE POINT)
Personality - Shivam, Narayanam, Brahmam, God etc., (TO WHICH REFERENCE POINT REFERS TO)

May be with the above terms definition, do you want to explain a bit more. Does the person evolve or the personality evolve????

Below is my understanding with the position of my REFERENCE POINT.

There is no evolution/change to personality. It is just the reference point (Person) keeps changing/evolving. This change/evolvement happens only when the reference point (person) thinks he/she/it is not complete and different to which he/she/it refers to.

Contentment is not mere for materialistic things unless the term materialistic is redefined as all manifestation energy which includes time and space.
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Five Personalities 5 years 8 months ago #1082

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We should not judge others, but w need self judgement of our own personality, so that like your previous wonderful answer, we can reflect our nature from others and evolve.

Why should we evolve?. what happens if we dont evolve. May be read that from the last post

If it understand and realizes that it is not deficient, then naturally the needs of the personality reduces and the feeling of CONTENT come
s.
Then contentment is good is materialistic things, that that wont be enough for the personality. It is still there, the personality has to dissolve and the person should be there, which is the reality. Only then there is completeness in the person, As long as personality is there, there is always a limitation a non-contentment.

There is no evolution for person, only the identification to personality evolves or changes to no personality. Do you agree?
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Five Personalities 5 years 8 months ago #1081

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@Sakthi

If there is no judgement against personalities, then everything are ideal. So a personality can't tell someone which is best one to have, if it tells, then the personality judge other personalities.

An adult can't tell a new born child (Just because they have human form) to go and work and start earning money for his/her family instead sitting around and playing, because that is the ideal state of the human (From an working adult perspective). As a child it is in an ideal stage, if the adult keep judging child's activities from an adult perspective then the adult is making fool out of himself/herself. Instead if the adult realizes the child is a child, then they stop judging others because the personality realized that every personality is at an ideal state.

"A rose is a rose is a rose"

A personality keeps changing states just for a simple reason that it has a inferior feeling "I am deficient". If it understand and realizes that it is not deficient, then naturally the needs of the personality reduces and the feeling of CONTENT comes.

It is like when a person buys bigger house thinking that it will give him/her security. After buying the house, they end up in putting alarm around the house to make the house secured :lol:
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Five Personalities 5 years 8 months ago #1080

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Dear Muthu

Why can't an individual stay with just one personality and act accordingly?

which personality do you think ideally (best) one should have and act accordingly? If you why?
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Five Personalities 5 years 8 months ago #1079

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@ Sakthi

How can the observer justify which is lower level and higher level. When the observer justifies the levels, doesn't it mean that the observer has the feeling HE/SHE/IT is inferior?? When the observer feel HE/SHE/IT is complete and has everything, then there will be no lower and higher levels.

This is exactly my question. Why should different personality exist in an individual (This is actually a disease)? Why can't an individual stay with just one personality and act accordingly?
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Five Personalities 5 years 8 months ago #1076

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All the personalities exist for the observer to evolve.
Very good explanation Muthu, that the external personalities reflects the observer (person) to transform his or her personality. Telling externally we transform our internal.

To rephrase your second explanation, the change is for the personality. The person observes or witnesses the personality change. The personality has to transform or evolve from the lower level to higher level and that is progress or Success. The purpose of life is to witness the change in personality from one level to the next.

Even in an individual, there could be personality views at two different levels, example on heath and religion. In health one could have a higher personality view and on religion at a lower level. Then the religion view has to evolve to the intelligence level and the health be also evolve to awareness level.

Next question open to all is, why should we evolve, why not stay at same level?
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Five Personalities 5 years 8 months ago #1073

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It seems to be luck day to me. When I ask a question, I get the same question back :P

Anyways below are my perception not my answer.

Question 1 - Dealing with personalities means understand and realize that they are correct in their perception and then connect to yourself and convert the observer. Here if the observer judges others perception and starts grading then observer is missing himSELF/herSELF. All the personalities exist for the observer to evolve.

Question 2 - As far as the individual stays as an individual then there is a high possibility for him/her to keep all the needs at the same level. There will loss and gain when compared with other levels, but it will be again the individual's decision to choose which loss which he/she can live with. The individual also has a choice to choose no loss and no gain option.

When an individual relates and try to create a group / family / organization / community / country etc and when the related and the individual are on the same level it is still a possibility to keep the needs at the same level. But if the related are on different level, then either the individual can still put the foot down and keep the needs at the same level or keep fluctuating in levels to keep the group etc in a happy or miserable mood.

So the individual keeps changing levels for their needs to make someone feel happy or miserable.
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Five Personalities 5 years 8 months ago #1069

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Very nice muthu, for a sparkling question.

What would be your answer to the questions if some body has asked you?.
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Five Personalities 5 years 8 months ago #1068

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Nice article.

I have couple of questions.

So does dealing with other personalities means understanding that they are correct in their perspective or understand and convert them to the observer's perspective?

The article says ""For example about religion one might be on the second emotional level, but about health one might be on the third level and so on."" Why can't an individual keep all his/her needs at the same level or why the individual tends to change the levels for the needs?
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Five Personalities 5 years 8 months ago #1067

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Understanding the Five personalities can help us to deal with everybody around us.

Because we have conflicts with our views with others. This can lead to divorce in couples, family feds, communal riots, religious and political wars.

Everybody with their view is correct. is there an Universal Truth?. Whose view if the true Truth?
Last Edit: 5 years 8 months ago by Uni5.
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