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what is Reborn?.

TOPIC: Is rebirth real?

Is rebirth real? 2 years 3 months ago #2027

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Re: Is rebirth real? 5 years 8 months ago #530

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When moving from work place to another work place, we do not carry anything physical from previous work place, but only our work experience or knowledge or awareness with us. The same way for our next lives we cannot carry any material things we possess this life time, but only our Energy awareness. Even the world richest person or a movie star or any successful business person, politician or a king like Alexander or Asoka, have to leave all possessions. What karma thye did now will only shape their next life.

So now while living, share all the resources what we have now, the resources of wealth, good thoughts, knowledge, awareness to every one. Because merits of these actions alone will help us in next lives.
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Re: Is rebirth real? 5 years 10 months ago #380

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Yes, interestingly you have noted about re-incarnating in the same region. Also I feel most children are able to recollect when they have accidental death. In India this is why for accidental death, special rituals are done so that when they are reborn they dont have trauma in childhood. Most parents of reincarnating remembering children seek medical health when children are in trauma. Krishna in Gita says what thought we have in the end will dominate the thoughts of the next birth.

Child prodigies are born when they have strong intellectual thoughts before they die. All these are about patterns. Individuals reincarnate in other places when they have strong desires of other places. Example Indian immigrants in USA will have strong chances to be born not in India but in USA. The essence of all this discussion is that, desires cause rebirth.

I take the pattern as the same pattern in chemistry of elements. Out of 118 elements except 6 elements of group 18 all the others continue to keep reacting since big bang. They continue to take rebirth. Noble gases in periodic table have attained Moksha - non reactive and interestingly they are used in bulbs and in fluorescence, giving light. All other elements are not satisfied in energy (electrons) and so keep reacting again and again with others. This is the pattern of Human beings. Krishna says when there are no more desires , Moksha occurs (Noble state).

Only recently with technological development the old theories are proven with physical evidence and at finer level. Like any theory science is proven with more evidence. Charles darwin theories are proven with more evidence with molecular biology advancement. Rebirth was ignored in Modern scientific community with the bias that there is no rebirth. Only a bunch of scientists have taken the initial attempt to document it. In future there will be more research on it.

Every human being (scientists included) will propose a hypothesis and will look for evidence to support it or research it. Definetely there will be bias for it, because we see only what we want to see.

But if we dont question the universality of the data, it becomes as a belief system (religion - Matham) of the individual or a group. If however one questions the data at the universal level, then it becomes Science or Shasthram. If further one applies that theories to one own Self and connects to it, then it becomes Spiritual or Aathmeeyam.

What I describe is the approach of Indian Vedic science , that is why all Upanishads are in the question and analysis format. Not a belief system (spiritual not religious). The Rishis (Ancient scientists) said otherwise it will only be "Confirmation_bias".

Finally, they give the most practical conclusion that , one will naturally continue to do Confirmation_bias, until when the results of that bias, shakes the life of the person (suffering). Then he or she will look to the holistic picture , and will evolve (grow out) from the belief system to the intelligence-awareness system. This they call as "Aathmeeya-Parinamam" or Spiritual Evolution.

Thanks for reading. We all continue to evolve, that is the nature of Energy- Sakthi.
Love
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Re: Is rebirth real? 5 years 10 months ago #379

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This is from a friend who read the above article

Tkx for the links one interesting take on re-incarnation is that most seems to be within the same region. Never heard ( at least to my knowledge) of an american soul reincarnating in a diff continent or an Indian in another or any soul jumping regions. Well as for Ian Stevenson and the Virginia university research

"Stevenson never claimed that he had proved the existence of reincarnation, and cautiously referred to his cases as being "of the reincarnation type" or "suggestive of reincarnation".[13] He concluded that "reincarnation is the best — even though not the only — explanation for the stronger cases we have investigated"
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reincarnation_research.

We both are driven it seems by selective thinking or confirmation bias
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
each one seeing what favors his beliefs. :)
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Is rebirth real? 6 years 1 month ago #10

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We are all sure of death and only have a fear when there is a threat to body like disease or accident. Otherwise we "feel" we are eternal and will live for ever. This is natural because we are always eternal. We rarely think of a very contradicting feeling of fear of death vs a feeling of eternal life. When we fail to resolve this self-contradiction, we lead a life of suffering and frustrations.

We cannot accept the thought that only our body dies but our identity continues to live. Rebirth is rarely discussed because it is commonly dismissed as a false notion because there is no proof of rebirth. There are two problems in understanding the truth of rebirth or reincarnation.

1. No proof of rebirth.
2. We do not know what dies and what does not die.
more questions in the FAQ at the end of this page.

Proof for rebirth or reincarnation:

Thanks to modern science and technology to give a solid proof for rebirth or re-incarnation. Through photographs, video recording and by internet we can have solid evidence of rebirth. A 60 year old person does not have the same physical appearance of 60 years ago the day the individual was born. That baby body has died and reborn through teenage, middle age to old age. Through photographic recordings we can look back how the individual looked in the baby body.

Similarly photographs are giving the proof of the body picture in previous life. This work is done by a few scientist who have recorded amazing visual proof of children who have talked about their previous birth and validated with the help of research scientists. Example Ian Stevenson, a Canadian biochemist and professor of psychiatry, University of Virginia and Jim B. Tucker, a child psychiatrist, is continuing Stevenson's reincarnation research with children, focusing on North American cases and exploring possible mechanisms for personality transfer.

This is about a boy who said he was a pilot and died in a crash. The parents who first ignored the child bablings were astonished when the child used words normally used by professional people. Parents through internet search did find the information as correct.

Very interesting video.

This is about a boy who insisted his mom to take to his earlier mom and his home. Any mom would think weired when a five year old boy talks about his home in a different place. With the help of the scientist
Part-1

This is another from discovery channel.
Very interesting video.

Watch all the five parts - Part-1, Part-2, Part-3, Part-4, Part-5.
The scientists shows about previous incidents and birth marks in this video. Please google for many such cases.

We will now go the second question about what dies and what re-incarnates. It is easy to understand through the Universal five pattern to give logical proof of rebirth.

We have to look at rebirth at all five levels and see at which level does it make sense. In other words we have to be clear what is reborn and what is not reborn. We also have to differentiate rebirth from recycling.

1. Body level - Absolutely our body is not reborn. After anyone dies, it is buried or burned. It is buried, micro organisms decompose it exactly like a vegetable that undergoes decomposition when we throw it in our garden. When the body is burned (cremated) then it is reduced to ash. So the decomposed body or the ash will be recycled but not reborn. Recycling means, the minerals of the dead-body will be used up by plants or micro organisms or insects to build their body.

2. Mind Level - our mind is not reborn, because our thinking stops when the brain dies. The brain is also decomposed or burned and so mind is not reborn. But our thoughts are recycled. Example, our friends or relatives will recycle our thoughts in their brain as memories.

3. Intelligence level - Our Intelligence also stops when the brain is destroyed along with the body, but the intelligence is recycled in others. Example, the intelligence of ancient Rishi's is still recycled in our thoughts. Though Einstein died, his intelligence of E=MC2 is still recycled in modern scientists.

4, 5. Awareness- Consciousness level - Whatever we thought, we did , those impressions does not die. This is what undergoes rebirth. In religious terms it is called as Soul and spirituality we call it as Vaasanas (impressions). These impressions are identified as "I" and undergoes rebirth. These impressions are thought-waves and are subtler than Electromagnetic waves. Rebirth is for these impressions.

Absolute & Relative: Even while living, we understand that our body, mind, intelligence are changing from baby state to the old age. Our body, mind and intelligence is changing every moment. What has not changed is our Self-identity (Awareness). From the baby state to old-age, this Awareness of Self identity has not changed. We call this as Soul or Self-Awareness, because it is absolute which means not changing at any time. However Body, Mind and intelligence are relative because it undergoes change with time. All relative things undergoes recycling and absolute undergoes rebirth because it is eternal.

Energy cannot be created nor destroyed but only undergoes transformation. This means Absolute Energy continues for ever, but the relative Energy changes. The Energy in the carbon atom present as fat in our solid body is absolute ( never destroyed), but the forms of carbon will be recycled (relative) when we breathe out it as carbon-dioxide gas.

Our mental impressions are Absolute and our body, mind and intelligence are relative. The relative things undergoes recycling and the Absolute undergoes rebirth.

Not clear?: Take the example, of the ford car manufactured in 1990. After 70 years of driving, it got old (the machinery became less efficient) and died. It was taken to the burial ground (junk yard). Some parts like door handle were transplanted and used in new cars (like eyes taken from dead people transplanted in living people). Some of the iron got rusted and fell on the ground and some micro-organisms and plants took that iron mineral and used that to build their body. These plants were eaten by human beings. We cannot say that the 1990 ford car was reborn as blood hemoglobin, but should say it was recycled in the form of blood in a human being.

Rebirth of the car. It is easy to understand that the car was recycled but cannot accept that the ford car underwent rebirth. However the Truth is that the ford car underwent both recycling and rebirth. The Energy in the iron form underwent recycling but the thought-wave impressions associated with the ford car, underwent rebirth into the next model (Evolution).

Vasanas - Self Identity thought pattern is reborn again and again:

We should first understand that a individuality or personality is a set of thought patterns we generate. This individual pattern of thinking is what we called as genetic-blue print of an individual. This thinking pattern is what is reborn. It is the thinking pattern that we all identify as "I". This identity is what is reborn and recollect as rebirth and reincarnation.

Rebirth and Evolution are interconnected. It is the tendency to change improve that drives both external evolution and internal evolution. However both the evolutions are interconnected. Scientists like Charles Darwin and spiritual giants from all religions talk about either both internal and external evolution.

We take rebirth (our Awareness takes only rebirth) to evolve. We have evolved from the inanimate or non-living to the highest human through millions of years. But we are struck in Human life because we are caught with choices and karma. We learn the tough lessons only to move on from the temporary happiness to to the next level of permanent happiness or Ananda.

FAQ on Rebirth:

Why think of Rebirth and what relevance does it has on our current life?. Knowing the history of our country and our ancestors is important to understand the results of the action of the historical actions and avoid repeating old mistakes and give in thoughts of corrective actions for a happy life.

Similarly, giving thought to the concept of rebirth helps us to understand the importance of our current actions which not only shape the current life but also a future life, which is based on our current actions.Life is frustrating when we cannot change our life. We should take self responsibility our the problems we face and make a thought to improve the quality of our current thoughts which will shape the future of our current life and the lives that is yet to come until we reach of stage of no desires to be born.

We are what we have thought and acted before: We see children born with physical disabilities, diseases, psychological illness, relationship problems, poverty etc are the actions of our own past actions. We come through the parents with the similar thoughts and karma. So prevention is better than cure:


Isnt the child talking about previous births, is due to the fact that the child's brain picking up signals of thought waves of some others thoughts. This disproves the fact about re-incarnation but only the fact that children are the rebirth of the parents.

This is very true, but also false (not complete) in interpretation. All the thought waves are present in the space in the magnetic form. We all share this thought wave bank. But as discussed above as Vasanas, we all have an individuality , a set thought pattern. This is why a child picks up thought waves of an demised individual's thought waves from the thought bank. The child is resonating to the same thought vibration of the disease individual. This core connection to a set pattern is called Vasanas. This Vasana is undergoing rebirth until there are no more desires to again connect to the thought bank.

3. Increasing human population makes no sense of rebirth
: Cause of birth is to fulfill desires. Every one takes birth when the right condition is available. Sometimes there is no choice. But given a chance like life originated on earth when the right conditions prevailed so does birth happens at the right conditions. Thought patterns which wished to live in this type of technological era are born now. It is a group effort that everyone contributed to the growth of science and technology to fulfill desires at the body level.

So many species which got extinct by human thoughts now are reborn as human, while other organisms continue to be in the same pattern. It is all a matter of thought pattern.
Last Edit: 5 years 10 months ago by Uni5.
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