Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC: Questions on Nothingness/Emptiness

Questions on Nothingness/Emptiness 1 year 2 weeks ago #1772

  • Neelima
  • Neelima's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 190
  • Thank you received: 1
  • Karma: 0
@ Muthu

In simple words, what I understand is there is One Consciousness.
There is a reflection of Consciousness which we feel as ‘I’ or our Awareness. This “I” feeling arises as we are wake and spreads to the Mind, Intelligence and spreads to even sense organs and all the body parts. Then we start identifying with our Body, Mind, intelligence and Awareness depending on the individual with which he is identifying with.

My view regarding the Creator and Creation.
For Example: Imagine a plain paper as Consciousness and then there is one dot that arises as ‘I’ the Awareness. Now this ‘I’ using its Body, Mind, Intelligence and Sense organs observes the external objects and creates many dots (Thoughts) as Wife, Husband, Wealth, beautiful, hatred, smart, status, pride etc and assumes that to be its world.

Here, when the ‘I’ is busy observing only other thoughts and engaged with all these dots all the time how can ‘I’ even think of the Consciousness which is its true nature. Though ‘I’ is that whole Consciousness it is just thinking that it is limited and just a dot.

So, here one dot, one thought of “I” is creating many other thoughts and the whole world for him. So the creation is created by none other than “I”. The problem and sufferings everything is for this “I” alone. When the identity as “I” is completely disappeared then what remains is only the “One Supreme Consciousness”

We say "I" is an illusion, so how can "I" sleep??? The actual sleeper is different...isn't it??...the "I" exist in the dream of the sleeper..

The Consciousness doesn’t sleep that is why we are aware of our Dream as well as the dreamless blissful deep sleep state when we are awake.
It is only the identification ‘I’ is lost because the “I” that is connected with the body, Sense organs, Mind and intelligence is disconnected during deep sleep.

While when the “I” is disconnected with only the Body and sense organs but still connected to the Mind and intelligence then it is Dream state.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Questions on Nothingness/Emptiness 1 year 2 weeks ago #1771

  • Uni5
  • Uni5's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 400
  • Thank you received: 14
  • Karma: 2
SELF doesn't suffers, there is only one SELF, it is OMNIPRESENT, OMNIPOTENT etc.,, and it is the "I" that suffers??? It completely contradicts the statement.

There is only one Self (Ocean) and many "I" waves or Ice cubes form in it. The Ocean Self does not suffer. The "I" waves or ice cubes will have suffering, if they feel they are different (individuals) from the Ocean.

As in Adi Sankaracharya's analogy, each "I" wave or ice cube will imagine something (lost from ocean) than the reality (still in one Self-ocean). This is what he meant through the snake and rope analogy, which means that the "I" individual when perceives duality will experience fear, limitations, life, death and suffering.

Summary: Self as the one single ocean has to suffering, the wave which feels duality suffers.

If an individual is living a life of actions for self-pleasures only (Sensorial pleasures), then naturally pain also comes as a package. Then the individual is caught in the duality of likes and dislikes, the brothers of Bhandausra, Visanga and Visukra or madhu and Kaitabha in Devi Mahatmayam.

Only when an Individual gives up fear, insecurity, likes , dislikes for the present and in future of the individual's personal life, will the individual experience the "One Self". Till then, the individual experience many Self's. For such an individual naturally the Contradiction of Single and Multi Self's will arise.

It is the individual who creates many individuals. It is the wave who creates the feeling of different waves for one-self. Like the student, who feels the limitations and creates the student (wave) and teacher (ocean). The ocean (teacher) has no desire to teach. The teacher has only empathy/compassion to embrace the waves.

However, teachers are also five types.

1. Body- Business- creating institutions and students to earn money.
2. Mind- creating students to earn fame, popularity.
3. Intelligence - find students and make them think to evolve towards Truth/knowledge.
4. Awareness - answers only to students who seeks a teacher.
5. Consciousness - Answering due to compassion/empathy

This concept was wrongly mis-understood and was taught o give up all pleasures in life and take "Monk-hood". In Vedic tradition there is no Sanyasa as "Monk-hood". Sanyasa means to accept both pleasures and pain as "One" Self-experience. That is to "Be" the ocean even when as a wave.

Conclusion: Only when one ceases to live as an individual, and live as one community Self, will one experience, Oneness (Advaita). Until then, one will experience this intellectual contradiction.
Last Edit: 1 year 2 weeks ago by Uni5.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Questions on Nothingness/Emptiness 1 year 2 weeks ago #1770

  • muthuksundaram
  • muthuksundaram's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 142
  • Thank you received: 2
  • Karma: 0
This is the simple answer when the child asks questions which a father don't know the answer or cannot answer. For example eating a chocolate can give different experience to a child and a father. The experience is not the same.

Consciousness / nothingness can't be explained, it need to be experienced. I think no one can dispute this.

Yes I completely agree the student came first or teacher comes first is not the question. When someone want to teach, the teacher creates student, when someone wants to learn, the student creates teacher...I have mentioned this on the previous post also..In Kaplia's story, his mother WANT to be a student, so a teacher appeared for her which is Kapila.

Is it possible for the identification to happen without creation? Obviously it cannot be, because there should be an identifier to identify something. So this obviously shows that the creation is the root cause for the creation of identification.

In Shankara's case, if there was no creation of snake at first hand the person would not had fear. Since there was something called snake was created in the past which leaded to identification with fear. Imagine if there was nothing called snake as per the person who stepped on the stick, then obviously there will be no fear for the person, there is no need for torch and light. For example take a new born child, keep a snake in front of the snake and let us see if the child is fearful. Obviously NO, because in the child't world there was nothing called snake existed.

So from your statement can we say "I" is not the sufferer, it is the cause of the suffering. The actual suffer is the "SELF" which created this "I" ??? So all the instruction to move or corner the "I" is suppose to be for the SELF right??? So all the instructions are actually REMINDERS for the SELF done by the SELF itself. Is it right???

But there is always a statement floating around that SELF doesn't suffers, there is only one SELF, it is OMNIPRESENT, OMNIPOTENT etc.,, and it is the "I" that suffers??? It completely contradicts the statement. :silly:

In Navaratri

First 3 days - Sakthi - Body
Second 3 days - Lakshmi - Mind
Third 3 days - Saraswathi - Intelligence
Last day - Parasakthi - Awareness

This festival is to show that the fight in this cinema (life on this SPACE) cannot be done at BODY, MIND or INTTELLIGENCE level, it need to be done at the AWARENESS level. But the funny part is, it is all orchestrated in CONSCIOUSNESS (SPACE) and the creator of SPACE enjoy's the show. The creator is the NO-THING.

At first hand if the NO-THING haven't created the SPACE, then everything should have been NO-THING, problem solved with all the LITTLE-THING in the SPACE. But the NO-THING created the SPACE and TIME and since the NO-THING cannot do anything with the TIME, the NO-THING started to play with the remaining available SPACE, now the NO-THING is in deep sleep and enjoying the dream and doesn't want to wake up, because may be it is not yet time, or it/he/she is addicted to sleep, so that it/she/he enjoys this drama in the SPACE.

Happy Navratri to all. Be in the SPACE provided to perform the Navrati celebration.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Questions on Nothingness/Emptiness 1 year 2 weeks ago #1769

  • Uni5
  • Uni5's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 400
  • Thank you received: 14
  • Karma: 2
What existed??Who put that?? Whomever make that exist creates the absence "I" automatically
A child is going with the father to a new place. The child keeps on asking zillions of questions about the place. The father says, when you reach there, all your questions are Self reveled to you.
Similarly, all the questions are Self revealed, when one Self-Experiences, Consciousness.

Acharyas/Gurus/Teachers however answers to a certain extent these questions. Infact there are no Acharya/Guru etc, they are created by individual(s) who experience suffering and want to overcome. A school is built for students and not giving jobs for teachers. The root cause is not the desire of the teacher, but the absence of knowledge in students, that self creates the school.

Example, the first teacher was Kapaila Maharishi and the student was Devahuti. Devhuti had suffering and wanted to get rid off it and asked her 8 year old son about the cause. Here the 8 year old student had no desire to teach. When the mother wanted to know, she asked and she herself made her son her teacher. Kapilacharya Taught the Uni5 method of Self experiencing this cause of creation and the means to end suffering.


so instead remove the thing
The key problem is not the creation, the darkness, lack of love, etc. "Bandhana" or "Identification" is the problem.

Please read page 135 in Journey to Source book, about Adi Sankara's excellent explantion. A person was walking in a dark rainy night and stepped on a slimy rope of a plant vine (rope like with thorns). he screamed out of fear and shouted that he has stepped on a snake which has bitten him and is going to die soon.

Here like creation, everything was created not to give suffering to this guy. they all existed, it is just the Self imagination of this guy and linked information of a snake and its teeth to the slimy vine.

There is no problem with this creation. It is the Bhandana or false identification, the problem. Who created the fear and now who can remove it?. It is only one's own Self. The guy uses a light on what he stepped and found it was onyl a slimy vine and got rid of fear. That light is knowledge, the torch is the Acharya/Guru. Here the torch was created to give light and not the other way round.

Here the sufferer has to understand that the problem is not of the person or wind who put the vine on the road. It is himself who has caused the fear of suffering. Stepping also was not a problem, it is wrong connection of thoughts or ideas that shaped into a fictitious imagination , that caused the problem.

How can we give up this identity?

A baby child had long curly hairs. The child was playing with its own hands by opening and closing its five fingers and grabbing things (usual action of all children). In one moment while closing the hands, its own hands caught the hair and pulled and created pain.

The child screamed as if somebody else caused the problem to its self. Ignorant parents also come and search for a biting ant or insect and finds nothing else, than the child's fist holding on to its own hair and causing pain.
The parents will try to relax the fingers so that the hairs will be be set free and the pain gone. But if they force too much it will damage the baby fingers. So they can only give attention to its fingers and when the child opens the fist, the pain is gone.

Similarly, we want to find reasons for our suffering on creation. There is no problem with creation. Here the suffering is the reality and we ourself imagine or put wrong information in wrong place and creates problems.

Note: Exercises of doing right things at right time overcoming our likes and dislikes is the first step to avoid suffering in life. This removes slowly Bhandana.

In Navarathri , Lalitha Sahasranam is chanted. It is only about our own inner fight on our wrong identities (Bhandana or Bhandasura).

Who is suppose to corner the "I" For the sufferer the suffering is real, we cannot say it is a day dream. The sufferer alone has to corner the "I", the suffering causer, which is our-own Self.
Last Edit: 1 year 2 weeks ago by Uni5.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Questions on Nothingness/Emptiness 1 year 2 weeks ago #1768

  • muthuksundaram
  • muthuksundaram's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 142
  • Thank you received: 2
  • Karma: 0
@Neelima - The first consumer is the MANUFATURER or INVENTOR or CONCEPT HOLDER or CREATOR. Then the manufacturer creates other consumers, because the manufacturer wants to make profit in terms of material/immaterial out of it's/his/her's idea.

@Uni5 -

"I" is an illusion and not any product that can be created. "I" is darkness (absence of light), "I" is cold (absence of heat), "I" is Evil (lack of love), "I" identifies (lack of infinite space-time knowledge)"

How can darkness exist when the light doesn't exist, How can cold exist when heat doesn't exist, how can evil exist when love doesn't exist....I'm mentioning EXIST, not ABSENCE. ABSENCE can be there only when there is EXISTANCE. A teacher can't mark absent in student log for a student who doesn't exist.

So this "I" which is absence of something was because something existed. What existed??Who put that?? Whomever make that exist creates the absence "I" automatically. Like a shadow can't exist unless something is on the way of the light. When someone put a thing on the way of the light, then the shadow automatically gets created. It was not because of the light, it was because of the thing. The thing was put by someone/something. After the shadow is created the instructions are given to the shadow, hey shadow move towards the light, so that you disappear and you experience the light :S ...the actual instruction is the the someone/something who put the thing on the path of the light. :woohoo:

An acharya/teacher exist only when a student can exist. If someone exist and has a desire to teach, the NO-THING is so generous it starts creating student to fulfill the someone's desire. The same with student vise versa...When there is a START there should be an END.

When does a learning ends?
When does a teaching ends?
When does poverty ends?
When does disease ends? etc

For example Eating can end when stop eating. So a process can stop by the end of the same process.

Yes I completely agree knowledge is the only one which remove the darkness. But it is the knowledge of removing the thing. Take for example the light from sun goes in all direction, does the earth is fully illuminated at any instance?? If you have light on all 360 Deg from the axis of a thing, the thing exists but can't be seen by any other, so actually there is no purpose of the thing to be there, so instead remove the thing and save energy of making the light on all 360 Deg.


Corner the "I" from justifying, step by step move the "I" to the higher Energy levels

Who is suppose to corner the "I", this is similar to giving instruction to the shadow. We all agree "I" is an illusion, so this instruction is suppose to be for the illusion creator, not to the illusion itself. Because it is just a illusion (by product), how can it take instruction and act??!!!!

A dream is a dream only when the "I" sleep gets over and the sleeper get awakened We say "I" is an illusion, so how can "I" sleep??? The actual sleeper is different...isn't it??...the "I" exist in the dream of the sleeper...So when the actual sleeper wakes up the dream goes off and "I" vanishes. But some sleeper does day dreaming also ha ha ha :P

Let the cycle continues :cheer:
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Questions on Nothingness/Emptiness 1 year 2 weeks ago #1767

  • Uni5
  • Uni5's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 400
  • Thank you received: 14
  • Karma: 2
making all the products confuse

It is a nice indication that all are confused. The word "con" is to bring together and fuse is to connect or join. This means everybody are going to connect to the Truth. which is known in different names Reality, Knowledge etc.

"viscious cycle" There is only one path to one destination. However, the "I" does not want to go away and so creates viscious cycles of different paths, different, traditions, different religions, different beliefs, different concepts, different teachers (guru,s acharya,s prophets etc) different justifications........ This is the viscious cycle the Ego wants to keep itself , if possible eternal.

"Acharyas, they are still in the cycle" It is the knowledge that liberates by removing the "I". No teacher, no Acharya, no Guru, No God can remove the "I" and its accompanied suffering. Only "Truth" or knowledge can liberate and so the "I" self-creates new methods to "justify" and lengthen the time to stay alive.

No ritual, no technique, no touch of a holy person or saint can remove the "I". Only knowledge of light can remove the darkness of "I". The "I" wants somebody to come and help, only to while away the time. it is scared of Knowledge, like darkness is afraid of light.

This does not also mean that without technique or ritual or a Guru/Acharya/Teacher can this "I" can go away. Rituals, technique, Acharya's are a means to impart the knowledge. It is the knowledge that finally removes "I" and not the physical, ritual, technique or the teacher.

How to get the knowledge: Corner the "I" from justifying, step by step move the "I" to the higher Energy levels. From Body energy, move to mental energy, then to intelligence, then to Self awareness and then to Consciousness. The "I" grows thin and thin and finally vanishes.

This is the only path to the only destination we all seek. Justifications to while away time and move to the next level are the viscious cycle of of path we create.

There are several festivals designed to corner the Ego. One of the most powerful is Navarathri, focusing on the visible Energy form (All-things), which is a slow way and the other is Shiva Rathri (accelerated way), focusing on the invisible (No-thing-Consciousness)

Even this discussion is a trap, The "I" finds a new way of thinking or doing an action to "while away time", even in any discussions that gives or imparts Truth.

stage of dream
Another justification of the "I" to get more time to live. A dream is a dream only when the "I" sleep gets over and the sleeper get awakened. Till then it is a reality for the "I".

If "I" was not the creator of itself, then how can it perform something by itself. "I" is an illusion and not any product that can be created. "I" is darkness (absence of light), "I" is cold (absence of heat), "I" is Evil (lack of love), "I" identifies (lack of infinite space-time knowledge) .

In sum total "I" is the absence of "Truth or Knowledge". Fill in with experential knowledge and not justifying intellectual knowledge. Darkness in a room is not real product, however when light is shown in each and every inch of the room, there is no darkness.

Live life to bring the Experiential Knowledge (Gnana) in every moment of life (and all walks of life).
Last Edit: 1 year 2 weeks ago by Uni5.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Neelima

Questions on Nothingness/Emptiness 1 year 2 weeks ago #1766

  • Neelima
  • Neelima's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 190
  • Thank you received: 1
  • Karma: 0
@ Muthu
Wow! You Consumer made the product "I" to think!

All these "Need to" questions are only for this Product but I remain pure and untainted. I am that supreme Consciousness who is in all forms of consumers making all the products confuse....
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Questions on Nothingness/Emptiness 1 year 2 weeks ago #1765

  • muthuksundaram
  • muthuksundaram's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 142
  • Thank you received: 2
  • Karma: 0
@Neo - Thanks for bringing up this wonderful discussion.

@Others - Thanks for all the posts and some valuable points

I have a basic question.

Every instructions says "YOU" need to loose the sense of "I", "YOU" need to loose the identity, "YOU" need to stop thinking, "YOU" need to be aware, "YOU" need to serve others to loose "I" and "YOU" need to do this this this and so many instructions....for YOU to come out of the cycle..

To whom are all these instructions for? If "I" was not the creator of itself, then how can it perform something by itself. At first had "I" didn't want to come, but something or NO-THING created this "I" and starts giving instructions "YOU" need to loose "YOURSELF". This sounds weird.

This is like manufacturing a product (for example fan) and creating a manual for the fan (NOT TO THE CONSUMER) to operate by itself and maintain itself and destroy itself :silly: . This sounds crazy..the instruction is suppose to be for consumer, not to the fan. So the consumer (including the manufacturer) has more power than the product (Here "I") to use and destroy. What does the poor fan can do it to destroy itself. When the consumer switches on the fan, the fan does it's job of producing breeze. Like this I's nature is to think, so if the consumer wants I to think, it thinks....so here who is the consumer of "I"??????

Whomever wants to destroy you "I"ness identify your consumer and give instruction to destroy "YOU"...wait wait wait...am "I" not the the product??????, so how can "I" find the consumer!!!!, the consumer need to find "ME"...so what can "I" do....wait in the showroom till you get bought by the consumer and use it for sometime till YOU get obsolete, then consumer will throw away you and upgrade themselves with a different "I"....so as far as there are consumers, there will be products ("I") :ohmy:

On the instructions it is always mentioned as "YOU NEED TO.....", so we can see it is a very viscious cycle of the creator (in this discussion "NO-THING"), "YOU NEED TO DO THIS TO COME OUT OF THE CYCLE", and "YOU SHOULDN'T BE HAVING ANY NEED TO COME OUT OF THE CYCLE". This NEED has been smartly planted B) , so that we can never come out of the cycle. If you want to come out of the cycle, this also becomes a "NEED" :sick: , then obviously when there is a "NEED" you can't come out of the cycle.

For example take any known acharyas, they are still in the cycle, they can never come out of the cycle. If you ask any disciple, he/she will say, his/her acharya has mentioned in his teaching this this this....so this giving instructions will be an ongoing thing, so that the acharya will never come out of the cycle, because Acharyas had a NEED to instruct everyone. When the instruction to others stops, then the acharya comes out of the cycle...But can we mention any unknown acharya?????? :whistle: we can't...because there are no instructions from them, so they are out of the cycle.... :lol:

So we are in a well fabricated smart trap to keep us in the cycle and never come out...

I still admire the movie "INCEPTION", we don't even know whose dream we are in or we in our own dream..if we are in our own dream at which stage of dream we are in...???

Even this discussion is a trap, because only if someone "NEED" to express, then they post, once they express their view (because they "NEED" to) then there will be a reaction, when there is a reaction, there will be another post and it keeps going :woohoo: ha ha ha ....isn't this "NO-THING" smart and cunning??? :evil: :lol: ..hats off to you "NO-THING", looking forward to meet you...wait wait wait can "I" meet "NO-THING"...no no no because "I'am" a product, so "I" wait for NO-THING to come and meet "ME" :woohoo:

Hope the above post is confusing enough :blink:
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Questions on Nothingness/Emptiness 1 year 3 weeks ago #1763

  • Uni5
  • Uni5's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 400
  • Thank you received: 14
  • Karma: 2
Is energy separated into positive and negative and if so who made/decided this separation?.

There is no positive Energy and Negative Energy. There is only one Energy and that is the reality. Like white money and black money are illusions, only Money is real. It is the user that defines it by giving value to it.

"Heat", "Light", "Love" "Inclusiveness (unconditional)" are real.

There is nothing called "Cold", it is only deficiency of heat.
"Darkness" is not real, it is occurs due to the absence of light.
'Evilness" is an illusion, because of lack of love.
"Ego" is a temporary creation because of conditionality in time and space.

There is no black colored "Negative" energy, it is the deficiency, we call as negative.

All human action classification ( good, great, wonderful, bad, ugly, cruel) is done by humans, not consciousness. So why should only so called positive energy path lead to un-manifested energy or consciousness
?

Positive Energy is inclusive and so embraces to an infinite level without any conditions. Wave is exclusive from ocean, but Ocean is inclusive. All positive emotions like good, great, wonderful, smile are inclusive and negative emotions of bad, ugly, cruel anger are exclusive.

So to lead to Un-manifested Energy or Consciousness, one has to be the inclusive positive Energy.

You are 100% right, we humans create and classify and not Consciousness. The Consciousness is embracing (inclusive), but we humans want to be exclusive and create deficiency or Negativeness.

Reality is that Energy is negative and Consciousness is positive (in terms of inclusiveness, infinite-ness and Eternalness).

So a human to be divine (without division-inclusiveness), must undergo phase transition with positive Energy, which at a "Critical level", is Consciousness, itself.

Click here for Additional Audio talks

Source - Universal Self pattern 2014)
Last Edit: 1 year 3 weeks ago by Uni5.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Questions on Nothingness/Emptiness 1 year 3 weeks ago #1761

  • Uni5
  • Uni5's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 400
  • Thank you received: 14
  • Karma: 2
Thanks Munic_77 for your wonderful post.

What is our purpose?
From a different view, every being has been born to be happy. I dont think any being is born for anybody else, other than for one-self. We are born to Serve not anybody, but only ourself is the hard-core Reality. But that "Our-Self" is the center of life, while the circumference should grow bigger to infinite (Moksha).

We start the Self, being Self-centered as a baby....get everybody to work for us. Then we grow slowly increase our mother into the circumference of our circle. Next our father, then our siblings and then our family and then our friends. Individuals limit their circumference to any number of people. Only a few increase that circumference to society, community, country and the whole planet and finally the Universe and beyond. That state one become the Divine (Deny divisions) or God.

The bigger the circumference we extend, greater is the joy and strength. Finally the greatest Realization followed by experience of the infinite happens.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Questions on Nothingness/Emptiness 1 year 3 weeks ago #1760

  • munic_77
  • munic_77's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Junior Boarder
  • Posts: 30
  • Karma: 0
All living being in these world are born with purpose.What is our purpose?To serve the needy and poor so that we can clear our karma and reach Moksha.it is our second chance given by god to human race only because animal doesn't have 6 sense or ability to meditate.

The only way to become selfaware is to stop thinking and open your heart to god with full of love and passion.Than the whole world will be on your feet. I realize that the only the thing god ask in return is to love him. if you do that, you will get all the blessing.

when we pray don't think but just surrender to god.than he will shower you with love and self awareness is created. You will start seeing god in everything.

beside that, prayers,chanting manthra and meditation gives us enormous strength to withstand these turmoil world.It actually streghten all the 6 senses which become exhausted due to daily use.When your 6 senses are alert you are able to perceive and assimilate things better.Also please talk only good things even if your are angry because negative words attracts negative energy.Even if your very upset just keep quite or talk only necessary things.

you can start by praying or showering your love to mother,father,guru,kula devatha,ancestors and cosmic energy.All these not only gives you strength but these where journey to self realization begins.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Questions on Nothingness/Emptiness 1 year 3 weeks ago #1759

  • Neo
  • Neo's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Posts: 4
  • Karma: 0
Thank you for answers and guidance. I am going to think on these to get a better understanding. I will ask my further questions on other topics.

Thank you again, for your patience and taking your time to answer all these.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Questions on Nothingness/Emptiness 1 year 3 weeks ago #1758

  • Uni5
  • Uni5's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 400
  • Thank you received: 14
  • Karma: 2
So what am I supposed to do?
This is where all different schools of thought originate. I follow the most simplest, logical, and the highly effective form of Kapila Acharya's Samkhya method. Kapila

His method of mind/ego purification, is a step by step method, where we try to live a life, giving deserved importance to body, mind, intellgience and Awareness. This means stick on most to intelligence level and then transcend to Self-Awareness. Initial Awareness is by being aware of cause and effect of your actions. This means to avoid actions that will bring actions that you cannot tolerate or spoils all the other levels of happiness you enjoy.

This does not mean neglecting the body and emotions of mind, but giving high priority to intelligence and witnessing the way mind (Ego) reacts to it. Here intelligence means "Dharma or Duty". example, try to eat the best for the body's health and not always for the taste only. This means tasty healthy food. It doesnt mean never to eat any junk food. Once a while allow the mind to graze what it crave for and at the same time be aware of the consequences that you will have to encounter. This increasing the witnessing or Self-Awareness attitude. Similarly the whole living style should be more of duty bound and not for emotional catering.

Try the best to be a dutiful son, dutiful brother, dutiful employee, dutiful husband, dutiful father, dutiful friend, dutiful citizen, dutiful socially and dutiful to environment. It is natural to fail in above duties at times. But do not scold yourself for it. Give time for you to change but at the same time be strict about the final goal. Same way you give time others to others also to change their quality. Treat others as you would treat yourself. This self-reflection and Awareness will develop to Empathy, the baby steps to Consciousness.

By walking on this razor's edge, dont be very rigid with the Ego mind, at times being flexible and compromise but also very strict in pursuit. It is very similar to parenting a child.

Note: When you give time to your Ego to give up bad Selfish actions, be aware of the justifications it brings to resist changes. This will be the most challenging aspect. This is the internal war like a hero villan action, where the villan tries to hide and hit the Hero. The Hero has to be always vigilant, other wise he is beaten to death. Here the villan is Ego and the Hero is the one who undergoes the Journey to the Source.

Over time, the Ego grows thin and intelligence and Self-Awareness start to gain weight. Think and act from the global perspective and not from the individual perspective. This is Selftual attitude or living rather than Selfish attitude or living.

Here are some of the practices, which are written in this section. You dont need to do exactly, but use the concept and try to raise yourself from the emotional personality to the logical personality and only then you can be a Self-Awareful person and then at last, the Conscious Cosmic person. It is a process or a journey.

Important Note: In no way your above said practices can be a problem to anyone. You cannot force any of your family member, friend or relative in the process to change to your method. You can give Awareness about it, but not in any way be a problem for them. Example, if you are in a salt less diet, you cannot force everybody in your family to be on salt-less diet. You can tell to keep aside food before adding salt for you. You can inspire them above the reality of cause and effect.

This is a personal Journey of Self Discovery, nobody except your own Self is a friend or a foe.
Last Edit: 1 year 3 weeks ago by Uni5.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Questions on Nothingness/Emptiness 1 year 3 weeks ago #1757

  • Uni5
  • Uni5's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 400
  • Thank you received: 14
  • Karma: 2
And this where I am right now, on the mind level. So i don't understand what is really awareness & consciousness.

Dont worry neo, 99.99999999% of common people only knows the three sides of the fingers, the body, mind and intelligence.

The two fingers of the hands of Awareness and Consciousness is not known by majority because , everybody are only aware of the physical body, their likes dislikes mind and the organizing intelligence.

Tragedy of Human life is not poverty, emotional failures in life or lack of material education, but ignorance of one's Self-Awareness.

Generally, most of the people take it for granted their emotional mind as Self- Awareness. Nobody can physically, emotionally or intellectually experience Consciousness. Only by transcending to Self-Awareness and breaking the Energy from the space-time prison, one can experience Consciousness in this life-time.

The thing is, you say consciousness is beyond mind and even awareness. How can you know something beyond mind? How is this possible?


It is a matter of shifting (transcending) from Self-Awareness to Consciousness....like the shift in Awareness from the two faces to one flower vase......

What should I do? Thinking won't going to help figure out something beyond mind. So what am I supposed to do?

We can understand this at intellectual level, but for experiencing it, one has to take the red pill, like Morpheus offered Neo.

This is the when the Matrix Journey starts.........
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Questions on Nothingness/Emptiness 1 year 3 weeks ago #1756

  • Uni5
  • Uni5's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 400
  • Thank you received: 14
  • Karma: 2
Confusion in this world is due to the use of words.

In this forum discussion (and web site), these are what it means. Look at your hand fingers, the five fingers represent this.

Body - Energy that has acquired a particular form and occupying space and has a creation time and expiry time. All non-living and living matter has body.

Mind - Energy that undergoes changes, transformation, motional (including emotional like the thoughts of likes, dislikes, fear, memory etc). All living and non-living undergo chemical changes.

Intelligence - Energy that mediates organization, structure, management, focus etc. All living and non-living has structure and order.

Awareness - the Energy that connects in and out (internal and external). Only living has Self-Awareness. Non-living cannot respond to external changes.

Consciousness - un-manifested Energy. Consciousness has no form and so not bound by time and space.

Consciousness is the un-manifesting Seed of everything. It is similar to

Zero is the seed of all numbers.

Sperm is the seed for human body formation.

Plant seed is the seed for plants.

Aum is the seed of all sounds and alphabets.

Consciousness is all , infinite and excludes no-things and things.

The above is the symbolized by five fingers of hand and externally as the five elements of nature (Earth- body, Water- Mind, Fire- Intelligence, Air- Awareness and Space - Consciousness.

You will see that all these have the same pattern.

The sakthi Schools uses this five universal Self Energy pattern to study all subjects.


Hope this help to communicate all of us in a same language.
Last Edit: 1 year 3 weeks ago by Uni5.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Questions on Nothingness/Emptiness 1 year 3 weeks ago #1755

  • Neo
  • Neo's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Posts: 4
  • Karma: 0
To make things more clear:

When i say mind, i refer whole mental things, feelings like fears & desires, ideas and thoughts, memories, likes and dislikes. For me, Ego is a kind of mental summary of all these.

And this where I am right now, on the mind level. So i don't understand what is really awareness & consciousness.

The thing is, you say consciousness is beyond mind and even awareness. How can you know something beyond mind? How is this possible? What should I do? Thinking won't going to help figure out something beyond mind. So what am I supposed to do?
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Questions on Nothingness/Emptiness 1 year 3 weeks ago #1754

  • Neelima
  • Neelima's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 190
  • Thank you received: 1
  • Karma: 0
Consciousness is not nothing or No thing. It is Every thing.

In Uni5 view-

Ego could be at the body level referring to the body.
Ego could be at Mind level referring to all my likes and dislikes
Ego could be at Intelligence level which guides me as my ideas
At Awareness level there is no Ego and only pure Awareness that just witnesses as I.
When even that I melt down, what exists is only Pure Consciousness. Here there is no awareness of the forms and names and Self. Consciousness alone is.

Though this universe appears in different forms and names, it is that Supreme Consciousness that runs this play. Everything runs so meaningfully, plants, animals, nature, occurrence of seasons, functioning of different systems in our own body, birth, death everything occurs so systematically...

Now if you say it is not to be seen?
“because if there is no-thing to point that means, it does not exist. So, nothing or no-thing means not-exist.”

For example, when somebody touches our hand, we respond. If somebody asks where is your head, we point to our head. We are able to show all of our body parts when they point to different parts.
We also show ‘I did that’ with our Index finger referring to our whole Self, where exactly is that whole of our self? We are not able to show.
As we are not able to show our SELF though we are present similarly we are not able to see Consciousness. Not able to see Consciousness doesn't mean Consciousness doesn't exist.

“So there are two doors for enlightenment”
“Removal of ignorance, complete melting down of our Ego is the only door for enlightenment.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Questions on Nothingness/Emptiness 1 year 3 weeks ago #1753

  • Neo
  • Neo's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Posts: 4
  • Karma: 0
You haven't answer my question - Neo to Architect, Matrix Revolutions

I understand your replies and examples, but they don't answer my question.

You put the "thing" we call as "consciousness" as the opposite of energy.

Now the opposite of energy is nothing, but not no-thing, nothing as means of non-existence.

In fact there is no such a word to point it, i think. It would sound stupid if i say "how can something (be) exist but be no-thing at the same time?", because it points that "no-thing" as something. And I think this is understandable, because if there is no-thing to point that means, it does not exist. So, nothing or no-thing means not-exist.

I don't really understand what you mean with consciousness. Most people use the words consciousness and awareness interchangeable, which sounds quite wrong, because if there are two different words, then there should be two different meanings. I don't know the meanings of consciousness and awareness, so I am not "aware" of the difference.

What i know for sure, there is a witness, and there is ego - the personality. Witness, is the subject of experiences, and the ego - the person, can be said that is a reflection of witness on the mind.

If I had to guess, I would say you mean what i call "the witness" when you say "consciousness".

Now, in the ultimate sense, i would say i am the witness, but an indian guru Nisargadatta Maharaj, says that, he is not even witness but awareness. Or something like that.

Anyway, because these words like consciousnes, awareness and such does not have solid meanings to me, talking on these doesn't really help.

As I said before, I understand witness, and the ego. Now the ego is based on life long experiences of witness through body/mind, and the witness experiences the world through the perspective of ego.

Enlightenment, or self realization, is getting rid of ego. BUT, i don't think the ego is just a malfunction of mind, it is in fact there to protect the "things we own" including our body.

Now, beyond the perspective of ego, one might say that, all bodies are mine OR none of the bodies are mine; but this won't change the fact that, I experience the world (pain & joy) through one particular individual body.

There are things and people i love, because they were kind to this particular body/mind, so I don't want to lose them, I need to protect them. This way, the ego shapes.

But the inevitable thing is, sooner or later, I am going to loose everything I love. At first, one by one, and in the end i will lose this body/mind.

I doubt if there is an afterlife as mainstream religions talk about. I think that, the afterlife is just another metaphor just like the rebirth idea of hinduism & buddhism.

We in fact die & born every moment, our mind and body changes over time. From this perspective of thought, prophets, avatars, gurus and saints, were in fact just the first atheists, who realized the truth of inevitability, nothingness, the ultimate annihilation. But they didn't tell that openly, which would lead to more suffering, instead they made up some nice stories to keep people in order, and guide them to live the ONLY life they have with most possible joy.

It seems we are trapped here, as the "witnesses". The "witness" have a mind, to keep the body alive. Body is required for the witness to experience the world. So it has to be protected. So there is ego, for this purpose.

So there are two doors for enlightenment: The door on the left leads to the source: loss of ego, and destruction of zion: the mind. The door on the right, leads to the matrix, to the loved ones, to keep them with us as much as possible.

But we already know which one I am going to choose, don't we. ;)
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Questions on Nothingness/Emptiness 1 year 3 weeks ago #1749

  • Uni5
  • Uni5's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 400
  • Thank you received: 14
  • Karma: 2
Dear Neo,

I don't really understand nothingness, and maybe the whole point of enlightenment is "understanding it".

There are two aspects of a pattern in this universe,
the visible and invisible,
the seen and unseen
the thing and no-thing.
tree and seed
numbers and zero.
roppa (form) and soonya (nothingness)
thoughts of "I" and Emptiness
Energy and Consciousness


The Energy pattern we zoom it out to four (body, mind, intelligence and Self-awareness) and the fifth Consciousness (total five), all the five is only one (uni5).

The "I" has to be emptied out to realize the Consciousness. If "I" is an Ice block (a form), then you have to melt it (empty it) to water (Consciousness). The heat to melt is fire of knowledge.

I am also not sure what it means "I am nothing". For me, nothing sounds like non-existence to me.


It means you are really water and not the ice. an ice in ocean water says "I", , it loses its identity when it melts and one with ocean water.

In Spiritual journey, most individuals gets struck with intellectual understanding and not experience it.
To experience, one has to get out of the intellectual understanding and put in practice.

See if this Uni5 Logo has sense for you.

Split the word Nothing to No-thing. You are not a thing (ice), you are beyond the form (water).

When I think deeply on meanings and purposes, it ultimately leeds to "nothing". Even if you believe in god, you can ask what is beyond god, and the answer will be "nothing". Maybe this is what it called as Para-Brahman.

God is also no-thing (common people, have life in a world of forms and names and so they stick on to Go in forms and names).

Right now, nothingness, sounds to me like being meaningless, being purposeless. .

You are right, when we are in the world of forms, the formless world is meaningless and vice verse. Like this picture , either you see faces or the flower vase and not both at the same time.

Either you be the Energy or the Consciousness (not both). You have lose a world of Energy forms and gain the access to the world of no-forms (no-things).

Maybe this is what they call, "living the moment" or "being in present" Space comes to picture when there two objects. Once space is there, then it is measured by time (between them). Time and space is continium. When you dissolve the "I" form, then you are in the present or being.

Because all desires, hopes, expectations, ultimately leads to suffering. Because everything you own, even owning your "memories" which are the building blocks of your personality, causes a fear of losing. Which in the end causes suffering.

All the "I" we have crystallized as Energy from the Consciousnees (Water) we keep changing into different shapes and sizes of ice cubes (desires, hopes) and we experience all these limitations of Energy as sufferings.

But, what enlightenment offers to solve this? Nothing really, "Nothing" really. As I understand it just offers you to accept that, everything comes from nothing, and goes to nothing, so it just says, "live with it".

The first training in Enlightenment is "Acceptance". When we accept, then we confront the first step towards Reality. Acceptance is not about stop doing further actions, but a step to get out of the mind which does not wants to accept the reality, but brooding over it.

If a glass vase falls from our hands and breaks, if we keep lamenting, then we dont accept the Reality. If we accept the reality, that the flower vase is broken, automatically, then we think, whether we should clean the floor, or get a glue and fix it. That practical thinking comes with acceptance and is not a weakness or a opium for the pain of breaking the glass.

I don't really like this, and also I do not see an escape from this. It seems like we are trapped in "life".
The likes and dislikes pull away from reality. Likes and dislikes, fuel illusion. What is that you want to run away from, that you yourself have created?

The enlightenment idea, started to seem to like just another psychological defense mechanism: disassociation.

Enlightenment is embracing. You embrace everything. You embrace, atheist, all religions, all scientists and all spirituals, by properly placing them as they are. This is how Uni5 methodology helps us.

It is like accepting our house, by accepting all the rooms as they are, knows how to use them according to the functionality. You cannot dislike bathroom and like more bed room. You embrace them as they are, for their functions are inevitable.

Enlightenment is embracing everything as they are. it is the most logical approach and brings happiness and contentment always. Again it is not an intellectual understanding. Enlightenment is the ultimate experience, the union (embrace).

The seeker, somehow, disassociates himself from everything, and starts to see himself as nothing, so, when he loses something, which could be anything material or mental, feels no suffering because he does not own it.

Just view it from another angle. In reality, nobody owns anything permanently. Even the oxygen we breath in is only temporarily ours. It does its role and goes away. If we try to hold on to it (associate), then there is a problem. Dissociation means to discard when the function is over. We need to know what to keep, how to keep and how long to keep. This is the dissociation thought we all should practice, to keep happiness and contentment.

So, the enlightenment doesn't really answer any question, or solve any problem, it is just what i call "a mind hack".

Enlightenment is a purification process. It purifies our Self from the impurities, like purifying Gold from the ore, by heating. It is not a hack or a pain killer or opiod.

We are trapped here, there is no escape, and the only thing we can do to not experience the suffering, is the ultimate psychological disorder: disassociation of self mentally from everything else. You will still be trapped here, but you will not see yourself as "someone". Just another illusion of mind. Please, prove me that i am wrong.

Yes we ourselves allowed to be trapped in life form. it is our own choice of letting us to be imprisoned by the chains of ignorance. Through Self-Awareness power we break it. Nobody bound us and no body can free us. We ourself can alone do it.

waiting for somebody is a lame excuse and a weakness. We have all the tools within us for escape and freedom. Our justifications also shackles us.

First step is the ability to identify the root problem, apply the method and free our-self.
Last Edit: 1 year 3 weeks ago by Uni5.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Questions on Nothingness/Emptiness 1 year 3 weeks ago #1748

  • Neo
  • Neo's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Posts: 4
  • Karma: 0
More then a year ago I bought the book of Pradheep Kumar, Journey to the Source, the book about the Matrix movies. I find the movie very inspiring and helps me on my personal quest.

I read lots of things about self realization, and although there are different approaches like hinduism, buddhism, zen, etc. I sense that, they are all talking about the same thing.

Whatever method/teaching you choose, all end up realizing of "I am" and nothingness.

This is where it gets complicated for me.

I don't really understand nothingness, and maybe the whole point of enlightenment is "understanding it".

I am also not sure what it means "I am nothing". For me, nothing sounds like non-existence to me.

When I think deeply on meanings and purposes, it ultimately leeds to "nothing". Even if you believe in god, you can ask what is beyond god, and the answer will be "nothing". Maybe this is what it called as Para-Brahman.

Right now, nothingness, sounds to me like being meaningless, being purposeless. Maybe this is what they call, "living the moment" or "being in present".

Because all desires, hopes, expectations, ultimately leads to suffering. Because everything you own, even owning your "memories" which are the building blocks of your personality, causes a fear of losing. Which in the end causes suffering.

But, what enlightenment offers to solve this? Nothing really, "Nothing" really. As I understand it just offers you to accept that, everything comes from nothing, and goes to nothing, so it just says, "live with it".

I don't really like this, and also I do not see an escape from this. It seems like we are trapped in "life".

The enlightenment idea, started to seem to like just another psychological defense mechanism: disassociation.

Disassociation is a psychological defense mechanism, and the enlightenment thing seems like just the most extreme version.

The seeker, somehow, disassociates himself from everything, and starts to see himself as nothing, so, when he loses something, which could be anything material or mental, feels no suffering because he does not own it.

So, the enlightenment doesn't really answer any question, or solve any problem, it is just what i call "a mind hack".

We are trapped here, there is no escape, and the only thing we can do to not experience the suffering, is the ultimate psychological disorder: disassociation of self mentally from everything else. You will still be trapped here, but you will not see yourself as "someone". Just another illusion of mind.

Please, prove me that i am wrong.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
Time to create page: 1.135 seconds