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Five Personalities 9 years 10 months ago #1113

@Sakthi

I think we might need to clarify the term "CONTENTMENT", because this can be viewed at different levels in different ways.

My understanding / perception

Contentment - I have everything and I don't need anything including the "I" thought.

Below is your point "To have a mind to do any needed task any moment without procrastination without any justification, is a mind at Consciousness.".

Yes you are absolutely right. When the person reaches the content level, then there is no NEED exists for the person (Conscious), but if a need arises (at conscious level) then the mind will be used automatically by the "I" in awareness to perform the needed task. But if the consciousness doesn't need any, what is the point for the consciousness to unnecessarily create the I thought and use the quite mind and create waves.

Your point is based on the assumption that the consciousness is incomplete and there is more action to be performed to fulfill the pending needs. Yes at this stage the mind need to come out of likes and dislikes and perform the actions at the proper time.

For an example take a child/adult. Does playing with a ball is more important OR to study for an entrance exam for MIT or to go for a work or to do social service or to have romance or to perform rituals or blah blah blah....? Here how do we define which action is appropriate at which time? If an external source defines which is appropriate then the external source judges the child/adult. But if the external source and the child/adult combines to one there is no judgement, because whatever happens is decided by the conscious.

Is there a list of tasks defined for every character what it is suppose to do and when it is to be done? If the list exists is it common or different for all the character?

The laziness for the mind occurs when there is no clarity of the need, when there is no clarity the focus goes to 2 different levels partially (for example intellect and mind) , at this stage the intellect might like to perform an action, but mind will dislike.

For example when a husband wants to do something and the wife doesn't like it. During this stage one will loose depending on their strength. This happens because there is no clarity what the family needs. If they both are clear about the family needs, even though one might not like the particular task, husband/wife will sacrifice for the welfare of the family.

The contentment level comes only when there is clarity of the NEED.

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Five Personalities 9 years 10 months ago #1116

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Very nice explanation Muthu. The contentment level comes only when there is clarity of the NEED.

But we have to differentiate between need and duty. There should be contentment in needs but not in duties. Contentment in duty is a lazy excuse to do a task (there likes and dislikes again pop up).

This is a mis understanding in many spiritual sadhakas, that one can forsake doing duties. Actually as you said we have to foresake needs (wants of the mind and likes and dislikes of the mind), but not the duty. In Gita, krishna tells about this difference between need and duty actions.

For Duryodhan there was a need for war. For Arjun , Krishna said, the war should be a duty action and not an need bound.

Todays likes , most of the people are working for the needs and not as duty bound. This trpas the mind more and more to endless needs of Samsara.

As long as we feel we have a BMIAC, then duties have to be performed. Having contentment or developing that attitude leads to duty bound action, that wanes BMIAC and one establishes oneself only in Consciousness state.

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Five Personalities 9 years 10 months ago #1117

@Sakthi

Could you please explain "What DUTY means?" "Where did DUTY come from?" "Who gave this DUTY?"

Below is my perception.

Krishna identifies Arjuna as Satrhiya during the war. As a Sathriya he was explained to perform the unbound action. If Arjuna didn't identifies himself as Sathriya then he is free of duties. Krishna also is a Sathriya, but why didn't he fight in the war? Is it just because of his oath of not to fight? Does Krishna was also bound to his own oath like Bishma?

If there is a identification then there will be a duty to perform. Like when an individual identifies himself/herself/itself as wife/husband/emplyoyee/employer/son/daughter/machine etc., then each of these identification has a duties because there is a purpose for each and every identification's creation.

Who creates these identifications? Obviously ourselves.
Who creates the duties? Obviously ourselves

When we can create a identification and duties we can destroy it ourselves also. If we think the identification and duties are given by an external source, then that is the birth of ignorance.

When there is identification with reference, then automatically the need and duty comes in action. When there is no identification the need and duty disappears.

NEED and DUTY goes hand in hand. When NEED disappears then the DUTY disappears also.

For example the duty of a wet grinder is to work when it need to make dough. So it is used when there is a need to make a dough. But when there is no need of a dough, just because the machine is there it shouldn't be keep running, it will be waste of energy. But when there is a need for the dough and the wet grinder says I will not work, then there is some problem with the wet grinder (LAZINESS).

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Five Personalities 9 years 10 months ago #1118

@Sakthi

I forgot to add the below point in the previous post.

In the same Mahabaratha where Arjuna and Krishna are there, there is a personality with name "Vidur". Vidur also had a duty to fight in the war, but he destroyed the relationship which he created himself as a Miniser/Citizen of Hastinapur, so he is not bound to fight. If a personality like Vidur is not fighting when he was referring himself as Minister/Citizen of Hastinapur then it is shear laziness. But here Vidur is not a minister/citizen of Hastinapur anymore , so he is not bound to fight, so he was not preached with Gita.

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Five Personalities 9 years 10 months ago #1121

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Could you please explain "What DUTY means?" "Where did DUTY come from?" "Who gave this DUTY?"
Excellent question. There is difference between "needs (selfish-desires-not basic needs )" and duty.

Connect our body which has different cells with different roles to perform to individuals as cells in a society. We have to perform duties like a pancreatic cell producing insulin hormones for the proper balance of Energy (glucose) storage and use similar to our material wealth. A kidney filters and recycle the salts like individuals doing recycling materials. We have to be like blood WBC cells giving immunity from microbial infection.

All the above are duties?. who assigns them?. They are self assigned post and no cells feel inferior or superior and discharge the duties for the body as a whole.

Now one single cell, dislikes duties and says I am content with what i do and does only production of materials for its own cell organelles (internal structures). But says does not harm any one (another expression of laziness). Then we call them as benign cancer.

Another cell has a strong desire to dis-regard the society (body). It is selfish and does not contribute anything to the body , but uses everything for its survival. This is called "Needs (Selfish-desires)".


Who gave the duty?. It is self responsibility. No body needs to dictate. Duty feeling comes only when a cell feels the whole body as itself. When it does feel as separate, then it has desires of wishes.


Every individual has to perform all the duties of not only as a son or daughter, but also as a husband and wife and sister or brother, a teacher or a scavenger, a politician, a security guard. Then from the individual family he or she extends to the whole body Consciousness state. This makes the body (society) healthy. Every individual has to do multi purpose roles and in doing so, lose their identity of being branded as an individual and becomes the Cosmic body.

By catering to needs, individuality is strengthened. By being duty bound, the individuality and identification vanishes.

Need and duty do not go hand in hand, they are extreme ends.

Your wet grinder example is good for non-living things. But for man with highest intelligence and awareness, should be "growing", from being catering to the individual body(brahmacharyam), to a family (Grahasthasanam) to guru (vanaprastham) and finally to society (Sanyasam).

If one does not move or grow, then Energy is wasted. By growing to the next levels Energy is used extremely eficient.

Today all the older people (perusu, Kaarnavar) are waste to the family and the soceeity, because of their stunted growth.

Vidhur is like a bone marrow cell. The BM's job is to produce immune cells and warned the body of an infection. If the body ignored the signals initially and then when anti biotics (war) has to be given, the bone marrrow need not be involved. That was Vidhur's role. So that is why he is called mahatma, who alone did his role. So he was not criticized for not participating.

Balarama was highly emotional person like the parasurama (except the Rama). So Krishna wanted Balarama to stay out of war. So before the war, he made Balram touch a dying cow and said you have to do parihaaram by visitign temples for Brahma Hathya Dosham. If Balaram was there, out of emotions he would have joined Duryodhan's army making it extremely difficult for Krishna.


Krishna particiapted in the war not physically. But without him the war cannot be fought. With BMIAC you could know at what level he was involved in the war.

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Five Personalities 9 years 10 months ago #1122

@Sakthi

Yes you are absolutely right. This is the same thing which I'm also telling.

When there is a identity as a normal cell in the body, it has duty and a need to keep the body healthy. So it need to do the duty as a cell for the goodness of the body. (Arjun)

When there is a identity as a bone marrow cell there is still a job to produce immune cells to keep the body healthy. I don't see Vidur here. Because Vidur didn't identify himself as any kind of cell when he resigned his job.

DOUBT
When there is a problem in the body does the bone marrow cells stops producing immune cells??. When anti-biotic is given, the bone marrow cells stop's it's work??

When there is a identity then there will be a job description and a need (Might be a wholistic need like to keep the body healthy, but it is still a need).

When the cell works for only it's need but don't use other's resources and doesn't work when there is a need (Maintain good healthy body), then as you said it is because it is lazy and becomes BENIGN CANCER CELL.

When the cell works for only it's own need by using other's resources and doesn't work to maintain good health for the body then it becomes MALIGN CANCER CELL.

We are talking about the same, but with only 1 subtle difference.

My perception is contributing to maintain a healthy body is a also a NEED, because when there is no body, the cell can't exist, so the cell contributes to the body because it NEEDS to exist.

I don't see any difference between a wet grinder and a man. The only difference which I see is physical form, but everything else inside this physical form is a manifestation of men's intelligence. It is like telling there is a difference between parent and a child because they look different. The wet grinder is created by human, so it is his/her's creation/child. Just because it manifested in different form it doesn't become different than human.

Could you explain a bit "What is RESPONSIBILITY?" 'What makes one feel RESPONSIBLE?"

Balaram was also finally made to involve in the war by judging Duryodhan and Bhima's fight.

I see KRISHNA fighting/involved in the war. When a dough is made and if the human claims that he/she made the dough, it is utter ignorance. It is actually the wet grinder made the dough and the human uses the wet grinder. Here KRISHNA is the wet grinder and we are all talking as if only Arjuna fought the war and Krishna didn't fight the war. What was he doing in Kurukshetra? Sitting idle!!!!???


CONFUSION
Could your explain a bit about your below sentence.
"Today all the older people (perusu, Kaarnavar) are waste to the family and the soceeity, because of their stunted growth."

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