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Questions on Nothingness/Emptiness 9 years 6 months ago #1748

  • Neo
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More then a year ago I bought the book of Pradheep Kumar, Journey to the Source, the book about the Matrix movies. I find the movie very inspiring and helps me on my personal quest.

I read lots of things about self realization, and although there are different approaches like hinduism, buddhism, zen, etc. I sense that, they are all talking about the same thing.

Whatever method/teaching you choose, all end up realizing of "I am" and nothingness.

This is where it gets complicated for me.

I don't really understand nothingness, and maybe the whole point of enlightenment is "understanding it".

I am also not sure what it means "I am nothing". For me, nothing sounds like non-existence to me.

When I think deeply on meanings and purposes, it ultimately leeds to "nothing". Even if you believe in god, you can ask what is beyond god, and the answer will be "nothing". Maybe this is what it called as Para-Brahman.

Right now, nothingness, sounds to me like being meaningless, being purposeless. Maybe this is what they call, "living the moment" or "being in present".

Because all desires, hopes, expectations, ultimately leads to suffering. Because everything you own, even owning your "memories" which are the building blocks of your personality, causes a fear of losing. Which in the end causes suffering.

But, what enlightenment offers to solve this? Nothing really, "Nothing" really. As I understand it just offers you to accept that, everything comes from nothing, and goes to nothing, so it just says, "live with it".

I don't really like this, and also I do not see an escape from this. It seems like we are trapped in "life".

The enlightenment idea, started to seem to like just another psychological defense mechanism: disassociation.

Disassociation is a psychological defense mechanism, and the enlightenment thing seems like just the most extreme version.

The seeker, somehow, disassociates himself from everything, and starts to see himself as nothing, so, when he loses something, which could be anything material or mental, feels no suffering because he does not own it.

So, the enlightenment doesn't really answer any question, or solve any problem, it is just what i call "a mind hack".

We are trapped here, there is no escape, and the only thing we can do to not experience the suffering, is the ultimate psychological disorder: disassociation of self mentally from everything else. You will still be trapped here, but you will not see yourself as "someone". Just another illusion of mind.

Please, prove me that i am wrong.

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Questions on Nothingness/Emptiness 9 years 6 months ago #1749

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Dear Neo,

I don't really understand nothingness, and maybe the whole point of enlightenment is "understanding it".

There are two aspects of a pattern in this universe,
the visible and invisible,
the seen and unseen
the thing and no-thing.
tree and seed
numbers and zero.
roppa (form) and soonya (nothingness)
thoughts of "I" and Emptiness
Energy and Consciousness


The Energy pattern we zoom it out to four (body, mind, intelligence and Self-awareness) and the fifth Consciousness (total five), all the five is only one (uni5).

The "I" has to be emptied out to realize the Consciousness. If "I" is an Ice block (a form), then you have to melt it (empty it) to water (Consciousness). The heat to melt is fire of knowledge.

I am also not sure what it means "I am nothing". For me, nothing sounds like non-existence to me.

It means you are really water and not the ice. an ice in ocean water says "I", , it loses its identity when it melts and one with ocean water.

In Spiritual journey, most individuals gets struck with intellectual understanding and not experience it.
To experience, one has to get out of the intellectual understanding and put in practice.

See if this Uni5 Logo has sense for you.

Split the word Nothing to No-thing. You are not a thing (ice), you are beyond the form (water).

When I think deeply on meanings and purposes, it ultimately leeds to "nothing". Even if you believe in god, you can ask what is beyond god, and the answer will be "nothing". Maybe this is what it called as Para-Brahman.
God is also no-thing (common people, have life in a world of forms and names and so they stick on to Go in forms and names).

Right now, nothingness, sounds to me like being meaningless, being purposeless. .

You are right, when we are in the world of forms, the formless world is meaningless and vice verse. Like this picture , either you see faces or the flower vase and not both at the same time.

Either you be the Energy or the Consciousness (not both). You have lose a world of Energy forms and gain the access to the world of no-forms (no-things).

Maybe this is what they call, "living the moment" or "being in present" Space comes to picture when there two objects. Once space is there, then it is measured by time (between them). Time and space is continium. When you dissolve the "I" form, then you are in the present or being.

Because all desires, hopes, expectations, ultimately leads to suffering. Because everything you own, even owning your "memories" which are the building blocks of your personality, causes a fear of losing. Which in the end causes suffering.

All the "I" we have crystallized as Energy from the Consciousnees (Water) we keep changing into different shapes and sizes of ice cubes (desires, hopes) and we experience all these limitations of Energy as sufferings.

But, what enlightenment offers to solve this? Nothing really, "Nothing" really. As I understand it just offers you to accept that, everything comes from nothing, and goes to nothing, so it just says, "live with it".

The first training in Enlightenment is "Acceptance". When we accept, then we confront the first step towards Reality. Acceptance is not about stop doing further actions, but a step to get out of the mind which does not wants to accept the reality, but brooding over it.

If a glass vase falls from our hands and breaks, if we keep lamenting, then we dont accept the Reality. If we accept the reality, that the flower vase is broken, automatically, then we think, whether we should clean the floor, or get a glue and fix it. That practical thinking comes with acceptance and is not a weakness or a opium for the pain of breaking the glass.

I don't really like this, and also I do not see an escape from this. It seems like we are trapped in "life".
The likes and dislikes pull away from reality. Likes and dislikes, fuel illusion. What is that you want to run away from, that you yourself have created?

The enlightenment idea, started to seem to like just another psychological defense mechanism: disassociation.

Enlightenment is embracing. You embrace everything. You embrace, atheist, all religions, all scientists and all spirituals, by properly placing them as they are. This is how Uni5 methodology helps us.

It is like accepting our house, by accepting all the rooms as they are, knows how to use them according to the functionality. You cannot dislike bathroom and like more bed room. You embrace them as they are, for their functions are inevitable.

Enlightenment is embracing everything as they are. it is the most logical approach and brings happiness and contentment always. Again it is not an intellectual understanding. Enlightenment is the ultimate experience, the union (embrace).

The seeker, somehow, disassociates himself from everything, and starts to see himself as nothing, so, when he loses something, which could be anything material or mental, feels no suffering because he does not own it.

Just view it from another angle. In reality, nobody owns anything permanently. Even the oxygen we breath in is only temporarily ours. It does its role and goes away. If we try to hold on to it (associate), then there is a problem. Dissociation means to discard when the function is over. We need to know what to keep, how to keep and how long to keep. This is the dissociation thought we all should practice, to keep happiness and contentment.

So, the enlightenment doesn't really answer any question, or solve any problem, it is just what i call "a mind hack".

Enlightenment is a purification process. It purifies our Self from the impurities, like purifying Gold from the ore, by heating. It is not a hack or a pain killer or opiod.

We are trapped here, there is no escape, and the only thing we can do to not experience the suffering, is the ultimate psychological disorder: disassociation of self mentally from everything else. You will still be trapped here, but you will not see yourself as "someone". Just another illusion of mind. Please, prove me that i am wrong.

Yes we ourselves allowed to be trapped in life form. it is our own choice of letting us to be imprisoned by the chains of ignorance. Through Self-Awareness power we break it. Nobody bound us and no body can free us. We ourself can alone do it.

waiting for somebody is a lame excuse and a weakness. We have all the tools within us for escape and freedom. Our justifications also shackles us.

First step is the ability to identify the root problem, apply the method and free our-self.

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Last edit: by Uni5.

Questions on Nothingness/Emptiness 9 years 6 months ago #1753

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You haven't answer my question - Neo to Architect, Matrix Revolutions

I understand your replies and examples, but they don't answer my question.

You put the "thing" we call as "consciousness" as the opposite of energy.

Now the opposite of energy is nothing, but not no-thing, nothing as means of non-existence.

In fact there is no such a word to point it, i think. It would sound stupid if i say "how can something (be) exist but be no-thing at the same time?", because it points that "no-thing" as something. And I think this is understandable, because if there is no-thing to point that means, it does not exist. So, nothing or no-thing means not-exist.

I don't really understand what you mean with consciousness. Most people use the words consciousness and awareness interchangeable, which sounds quite wrong, because if there are two different words, then there should be two different meanings. I don't know the meanings of consciousness and awareness, so I am not "aware" of the difference.

What i know for sure, there is a witness, and there is ego - the personality. Witness, is the subject of experiences, and the ego - the person, can be said that is a reflection of witness on the mind.

If I had to guess, I would say you mean what i call "the witness" when you say "consciousness".

Now, in the ultimate sense, i would say i am the witness, but an indian guru Nisargadatta Maharaj, says that, he is not even witness but awareness. Or something like that.

Anyway, because these words like consciousnes, awareness and such does not have solid meanings to me, talking on these doesn't really help.

As I said before, I understand witness, and the ego. Now the ego is based on life long experiences of witness through body/mind, and the witness experiences the world through the perspective of ego.

Enlightenment, or self realization, is getting rid of ego. BUT, i don't think the ego is just a malfunction of mind, it is in fact there to protect the "things we own" including our body.

Now, beyond the perspective of ego, one might say that, all bodies are mine OR none of the bodies are mine; but this won't change the fact that, I experience the world (pain & joy) through one particular individual body.

There are things and people i love, because they were kind to this particular body/mind, so I don't want to lose them, I need to protect them. This way, the ego shapes.

But the inevitable thing is, sooner or later, I am going to loose everything I love. At first, one by one, and in the end i will lose this body/mind.

I doubt if there is an afterlife as mainstream religions talk about. I think that, the afterlife is just another metaphor just like the rebirth idea of hinduism & buddhism.

We in fact die & born every moment, our mind and body changes over time. From this perspective of thought, prophets, avatars, gurus and saints, were in fact just the first atheists, who realized the truth of inevitability, nothingness, the ultimate annihilation. But they didn't tell that openly, which would lead to more suffering, instead they made up some nice stories to keep people in order, and guide them to live the ONLY life they have with most possible joy.

It seems we are trapped here, as the "witnesses". The "witness" have a mind, to keep the body alive. Body is required for the witness to experience the world. So it has to be protected. So there is ego, for this purpose.

So there are two doors for enlightenment: The door on the left leads to the source: loss of ego, and destruction of zion: the mind. The door on the right, leads to the matrix, to the loved ones, to keep them with us as much as possible.

But we already know which one I am going to choose, don't we. ;)

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Questions on Nothingness/Emptiness 9 years 6 months ago #1754

Consciousness is not nothing or No thing. It is Every thing.

In Uni5 view-

Ego could be at the body level referring to the body.
Ego could be at Mind level referring to all my likes and dislikes
Ego could be at Intelligence level which guides me as my ideas
At Awareness level there is no Ego and only pure Awareness that just witnesses as I.
When even that I melt down, what exists is only Pure Consciousness. Here there is no awareness of the forms and names and Self. Consciousness alone is.

Though this universe appears in different forms and names, it is that Supreme Consciousness that runs this play. Everything runs so meaningfully, plants, animals, nature, occurrence of seasons, functioning of different systems in our own body, birth, death everything occurs so systematically...

Now if you say it is not to be seen?
“because if there is no-thing to point that means, it does not exist. So, nothing or no-thing means not-exist.”

For example, when somebody touches our hand, we respond. If somebody asks where is your head, we point to our head. We are able to show all of our body parts when they point to different parts.
We also show ‘I did that’ with our Index finger referring to our whole Self, where exactly is that whole of our self? We are not able to show.
As we are not able to show our SELF though we are present similarly we are not able to see Consciousness. Not able to see Consciousness doesn't mean Consciousness doesn't exist.

“So there are two doors for enlightenment”
“Removal of ignorance, complete melting down of our Ego is the only door for enlightenment.

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Questions on Nothingness/Emptiness 9 years 5 months ago #1755

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To make things more clear:

When i say mind, i refer whole mental things, feelings like fears & desires, ideas and thoughts, memories, likes and dislikes. For me, Ego is a kind of mental summary of all these.

And this where I am right now, on the mind level. So i don't understand what is really awareness & consciousness.

The thing is, you say consciousness is beyond mind and even awareness. How can you know something beyond mind? How is this possible? What should I do? Thinking won't going to help figure out something beyond mind. So what am I supposed to do?

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Questions on Nothingness/Emptiness 9 years 5 months ago #1756

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Confusion in this world is due to the use of words.

In this forum discussion (and web site), these are what it means. Look at your hand fingers, the five fingers represent this.

Body - Energy that has acquired a particular form and occupying space and has a creation time and expiry time. All non-living and living matter has body.

Mind - Energy that undergoes changes, transformation, motional (including emotional like the thoughts of likes, dislikes, fear, memory etc). All living and non-living undergo chemical changes.

Intelligence - Energy that mediates organization, structure, management, focus etc. All living and non-living has structure and order.

Awareness - the Energy that connects in and out (internal and external). Only living has Self-Awareness. Non-living cannot respond to external changes.

Consciousness - un-manifested Energy. Consciousness has no form and so not bound by time and space.

Consciousness is the un-manifesting Seed of everything. It is similar to

Zero is the seed of all numbers.

Sperm is the seed for human body formation.

Plant seed is the seed for plants.

Aum is the seed of all sounds and alphabets.

Consciousness is all , infinite and excludes no-things and things.

The above is the symbolized by five fingers of hand and externally as the five elements of nature (Earth- body, Water- Mind, Fire- Intelligence, Air- Awareness and Space - Consciousness.

You will see that all these have the same pattern.

The sakthi Schools uses this five universal Self Energy pattern to study all subjects.


Hope this help to communicate all of us in a same language.

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