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Questions on Nothingness/Emptiness 7 years 3 months ago #1765

@Neo - Thanks for bringing up this wonderful discussion.

@Others - Thanks for all the posts and some valuable points

I have a basic question.

Every instructions says "YOU" need to loose the sense of "I", "YOU" need to loose the identity, "YOU" need to stop thinking, "YOU" need to be aware, "YOU" need to serve others to loose "I" and "YOU" need to do this this this and so many instructions....for YOU to come out of the cycle..

To whom are all these instructions for? If "I" was not the creator of itself, then how can it perform something by itself. At first had "I" didn't want to come, but something or NO-THING created this "I" and starts giving instructions "YOU" need to loose "YOURSELF". This sounds weird.

This is like manufacturing a product (for example fan) and creating a manual for the fan (NOT TO THE CONSUMER) to operate by itself and maintain itself and destroy itself :silly: . This sounds crazy..the instruction is suppose to be for consumer, not to the fan. So the consumer (including the manufacturer) has more power than the product (Here "I") to use and destroy. What does the poor fan can do it to destroy itself. When the consumer switches on the fan, the fan does it's job of producing breeze. Like this I's nature is to think, so if the consumer wants I to think, it thinks....so here who is the consumer of "I"??????

Whomever wants to destroy you "I"ness identify your consumer and give instruction to destroy "YOU"...wait wait wait...am "I" not the the product??????, so how can "I" find the consumer!!!!, the consumer need to find "ME"...so what can "I" do....wait in the showroom till you get bought by the consumer and use it for sometime till YOU get obsolete, then consumer will throw away you and upgrade themselves with a different "I"....so as far as there are consumers, there will be products ("I") :ohmy:

On the instructions it is always mentioned as "YOU NEED TO.....", so we can see it is a very viscious cycle of the creator (in this discussion "NO-THING"), "YOU NEED TO DO THIS TO COME OUT OF THE CYCLE", and "YOU SHOULDN'T BE HAVING ANY NEED TO COME OUT OF THE CYCLE". This NEED has been smartly planted B) , so that we can never come out of the cycle. If you want to come out of the cycle, this also becomes a "NEED" :sick: , then obviously when there is a "NEED" you can't come out of the cycle.

For example take any known acharyas, they are still in the cycle, they can never come out of the cycle. If you ask any disciple, he/she will say, his/her acharya has mentioned in his teaching this this this....so this giving instructions will be an ongoing thing, so that the acharya will never come out of the cycle, because Acharyas had a NEED to instruct everyone. When the instruction to others stops, then the acharya comes out of the cycle...But can we mention any unknown acharya?????? :whistle: we can't...because there are no instructions from them, so they are out of the cycle.... :lol:

So we are in a well fabricated smart trap to keep us in the cycle and never come out...

I still admire the movie "INCEPTION", we don't even know whose dream we are in or we in our own dream..if we are in our own dream at which stage of dream we are in...???

Even this discussion is a trap, because only if someone "NEED" to express, then they post, once they express their view (because they "NEED" to) then there will be a reaction, when there is a reaction, there will be another post and it keeps going :woohoo: ha ha ha ....isn't this "NO-THING" smart and cunning??? :evil: :lol: ..hats off to you "NO-THING", looking forward to meet you...wait wait wait can "I" meet "NO-THING"...no no no because "I'am" a product, so "I" wait for NO-THING to come and meet "ME" :woohoo:

Hope the above post is confusing enough :blink:

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Questions on Nothingness/Emptiness 7 years 3 months ago #1766

@ Muthu
Wow! You Consumer made the product "I" to think!

All these "Need to" questions are only for this Product but I remain pure and untainted. I am that supreme Consciousness who is in all forms of consumers making all the products confuse....

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Questions on Nothingness/Emptiness 7 years 3 months ago #1767

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making all the products confuse

It is a nice indication that all are confused. The word "con" is to bring together and fuse is to connect or join. This means everybody are going to connect to the Truth. which is known in different names Reality, Knowledge etc.

"viscious cycle" There is only one path to one destination. However, the "I" does not want to go away and so creates viscious cycles of different paths, different, traditions, different religions, different beliefs, different concepts, different teachers (guru,s acharya,s prophets etc) different justifications........ This is the viscious cycle the Ego wants to keep itself , if possible eternal.

"Acharyas, they are still in the cycle" It is the knowledge that liberates by removing the "I". No teacher, no Acharya, no Guru, No God can remove the "I" and its accompanied suffering. Only "Truth" or knowledge can liberate and so the "I" self-creates new methods to "justify" and lengthen the time to stay alive.

No ritual, no technique, no touch of a holy person or saint can remove the "I". Only knowledge of light can remove the darkness of "I". The "I" wants somebody to come and help, only to while away the time. it is scared of Knowledge, like darkness is afraid of light.

This does not also mean that without technique or ritual or a Guru/Acharya/Teacher can this "I" can go away. Rituals, technique, Acharya's are a means to impart the knowledge. It is the knowledge that finally removes "I" and not the physical, ritual, technique or the teacher.

How to get the knowledge: Corner the "I" from justifying, step by step move the "I" to the higher Energy levels. From Body energy, move to mental energy, then to intelligence, then to Self awareness and then to Consciousness. The "I" grows thin and thin and finally vanishes.

This is the only path to the only destination we all seek. Justifications to while away time and move to the next level are the viscious cycle of of path we create.

There are several festivals designed to corner the Ego. One of the most powerful is Navarathri , focusing on the visible Energy form (All-things), which is a slow way and the other is Shiva Rathri (accelerated way), focusing on the invisible (No-thing-Consciousness)

Even this discussion is a trap, The "I" finds a new way of thinking or doing an action to "while away time", even in any discussions that gives or imparts Truth.

stage of dream
Another justification of the "I" to get more time to live. A dream is a dream only when the "I" sleep gets over and the sleeper get awakened. Till then it is a reality for the "I".

If "I" was not the creator of itself, then how can it perform something by itself. "I" is an illusion and not any product that can be created. "I" is darkness (absence of light), "I" is cold (absence of heat), "I" is Evil (lack of love), "I" identifies (lack of infinite space-time knowledge) .

In sum total "I" is the absence of "Truth or Knowledge". Fill in with experential knowledge and not justifying intellectual knowledge. Darkness in a room is not real product, however when light is shown in each and every inch of the room, there is no darkness.

Live life to bring the Experiential Knowledge (Gnana) in every moment of life (and all walks of life).
The following user(s) said Thank You: neelima

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Last edit: by Uni5.

Questions on Nothingness/Emptiness 7 years 3 months ago #1768

@Neelima - The first consumer is the MANUFATURER or INVENTOR or CONCEPT HOLDER or CREATOR. Then the manufacturer creates other consumers, because the manufacturer wants to make profit in terms of material/immaterial out of it's/his/her's idea.

@Uni5 -

"I" is an illusion and not any product that can be created. "I" is darkness (absence of light), "I" is cold (absence of heat), "I" is Evil (lack of love), "I" identifies (lack of infinite space-time knowledge)"

How can darkness exist when the light doesn't exist, How can cold exist when heat doesn't exist, how can evil exist when love doesn't exist....I'm mentioning EXIST, not ABSENCE. ABSENCE can be there only when there is EXISTANCE. A teacher can't mark absent in student log for a student who doesn't exist.

So this "I" which is absence of something was because something existed. What existed??Who put that?? Whomever make that exist creates the absence "I" automatically. Like a shadow can't exist unless something is on the way of the light. When someone put a thing on the way of the light, then the shadow automatically gets created. It was not because of the light, it was because of the thing. The thing was put by someone/something. After the shadow is created the instructions are given to the shadow, hey shadow move towards the light, so that you disappear and you experience the light :S ...the actual instruction is the the someone/something who put the thing on the path of the light. :woohoo:

An acharya/teacher exist only when a student can exist. If someone exist and has a desire to teach, the NO-THING is so generous it starts creating student to fulfill the someone's desire. The same with student vise versa...When there is a START there should be an END.

When does a learning ends?
When does a teaching ends?
When does poverty ends?
When does disease ends? etc

For example Eating can end when stop eating. So a process can stop by the end of the same process.

Yes I completely agree knowledge is the only one which remove the darkness. But it is the knowledge of removing the thing. Take for example the light from sun goes in all direction, does the earth is fully illuminated at any instance?? If you have light on all 360 Deg from the axis of a thing, the thing exists but can't be seen by any other, so actually there is no purpose of the thing to be there, so instead remove the thing and save energy of making the light on all 360 Deg.


Corner the "I" from justifying, step by step move the "I" to the higher Energy levels

Who is suppose to corner the "I", this is similar to giving instruction to the shadow. We all agree "I" is an illusion, so this instruction is suppose to be for the illusion creator, not to the illusion itself. Because it is just a illusion (by product), how can it take instruction and act??!!!!

A dream is a dream only when the "I" sleep gets over and the sleeper get awakened We say "I" is an illusion, so how can "I" sleep??? The actual sleeper is different...isn't it??...the "I" exist in the dream of the sleeper...So when the actual sleeper wakes up the dream goes off and "I" vanishes. But some sleeper does day dreaming also ha ha ha :P

Let the cycle continues :cheer:

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Questions on Nothingness/Emptiness 7 years 3 months ago #1769

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What existed??Who put that?? Whomever make that exist creates the absence "I" automatically
A child is going with the father to a new place. The child keeps on asking zillions of questions about the place. The father says, when you reach there, all your questions are Self reveled to you.
Similarly, all the questions are Self revealed, when one Self-Experiences, Consciousness.

Acharyas/Gurus/Teachers however answers to a certain extent these questions. Infact there are no Acharya/Guru etc, they are created by individual(s) who experience suffering and want to overcome. A school is built for students and not giving jobs for teachers. The root cause is not the desire of the teacher, but the absence of knowledge in students, that self creates the school.

Example, the first teacher was Kapaila Maharishi and the student was Devahuti. Devhuti had suffering and wanted to get rid off it and asked her 8 year old son about the cause. Here the 8 year old student had no desire to teach. When the mother wanted to know, she asked and she herself made her son her teacher. Kapilacharya Taught the Uni5 method of Self experiencing this cause of creation and the means to end suffering.


so instead remove the thing
The key problem is not the creation, the darkness, lack of love, etc. "Bandhana" or "Identification" is the problem.

Please read page 135 in Journey to Source book , about Adi Sankara's excellent explantion. A person was walking in a dark rainy night and stepped on a slimy rope of a plant vine (rope like with thorns). he screamed out of fear and shouted that he has stepped on a snake which has bitten him and is going to die soon.

Here like creation, everything was created not to give suffering to this guy. they all existed, it is just the Self imagination of this guy and linked information of a snake and its teeth to the slimy vine.

There is no problem with this creation. It is the Bhandana or false identification, the problem. Who created the fear and now who can remove it?. It is only one's own Self. The guy uses a light on what he stepped and found it was onyl a slimy vine and got rid of fear. That light is knowledge, the torch is the Acharya/Guru. Here the torch was created to give light and not the other way round.

Here the sufferer has to understand that the problem is not of the person or wind who put the vine on the road. It is himself who has caused the fear of suffering. Stepping also was not a problem, it is wrong connection of thoughts or ideas that shaped into a fictitious imagination , that caused the problem.

How can we give up this identity?

A baby child had long curly hairs. The child was playing with its own hands by opening and closing its five fingers and grabbing things (usual action of all children). In one moment while closing the hands, its own hands caught the hair and pulled and created pain.

The child screamed as if somebody else caused the problem to its self. Ignorant parents also come and search for a biting ant or insect and finds nothing else, than the child's fist holding on to its own hair and causing pain.
The parents will try to relax the fingers so that the hairs will be be set free and the pain gone. But if they force too much it will damage the baby fingers. So they can only give attention to its fingers and when the child opens the fist, the pain is gone.

Similarly, we want to find reasons for our suffering on creation. There is no problem with creation. Here the suffering is the reality and we ourself imagine or put wrong information in wrong place and creates problems.

Note: Exercises of doing right things at right time overcoming our likes and dislikes is the first step to avoid suffering in life. This removes slowly Bhandana.

In Navarathri , Lalitha Sahasranam is chanted. It is only about our own inner fight on our wrong identities ( Bhandana or Bhandasura ).

Who is suppose to corner the "I" For the sufferer the suffering is real, we cannot say it is a day dream. The sufferer alone has to corner the "I", the suffering causer, which is our-own Self.

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Last edit: by Uni5.

Questions on Nothingness/Emptiness 7 years 3 months ago #1770

This is the simple answer when the child asks questions which a father don't know the answer or cannot answer. For example eating a chocolate can give different experience to a child and a father. The experience is not the same.

Consciousness / nothingness can't be explained, it need to be experienced. I think no one can dispute this.

Yes I completely agree the student came first or teacher comes first is not the question. When someone want to teach, the teacher creates student, when someone wants to learn, the student creates teacher...I have mentioned this on the previous post also..In Kaplia's story, his mother WANT to be a student, so a teacher appeared for her which is Kapila.

Is it possible for the identification to happen without creation? Obviously it cannot be, because there should be an identifier to identify something. So this obviously shows that the creation is the root cause for the creation of identification.

In Shankara's case, if there was no creation of snake at first hand the person would not had fear. Since there was something called snake was created in the past which leaded to identification with fear. Imagine if there was nothing called snake as per the person who stepped on the stick, then obviously there will be no fear for the person, there is no need for torch and light. For example take a new born child, keep a snake in front of the snake and let us see if the child is fearful. Obviously NO, because in the child't world there was nothing called snake existed.

So from your statement can we say "I" is not the sufferer, it is the cause of the suffering. The actual suffer is the "SELF" which created this "I" ??? So all the instruction to move or corner the "I" is suppose to be for the SELF right??? So all the instructions are actually REMINDERS for the SELF done by the SELF itself. Is it right???

But there is always a statement floating around that SELF doesn't suffers, there is only one SELF, it is OMNIPRESENT, OMNIPOTENT etc.,, and it is the "I" that suffers??? It completely contradicts the statement. :silly:

In Navaratri

First 3 days - Sakthi - Body
Second 3 days - Lakshmi - Mind
Third 3 days - Saraswathi - Intelligence
Last day - Parasakthi - Awareness

This festival is to show that the fight in this cinema (life on this SPACE) cannot be done at BODY, MIND or INTTELLIGENCE level, it need to be done at the AWARENESS level. But the funny part is, it is all orchestrated in CONSCIOUSNESS (SPACE) and the creator of SPACE enjoy's the show. The creator is the NO-THING.

At first hand if the NO-THING haven't created the SPACE, then everything should have been NO-THING, problem solved with all the LITTLE-THING in the SPACE. But the NO-THING created the SPACE and TIME and since the NO-THING cannot do anything with the TIME, the NO-THING started to play with the remaining available SPACE, now the NO-THING is in deep sleep and enjoying the dream and doesn't want to wake up, because may be it is not yet time, or it/he/she is addicted to sleep, so that it/she/he enjoys this drama in the SPACE.

Happy Navratri to all. Be in the SPACE provided to perform the Navrati celebration.

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